VMS4 Fixes for Headphones, Master, and Microphones

Great stuff but the main question is simply one and actually unanswered:
When Issues will be fixed, our new issues-affected-VMS4 will be replaced, will be upgraded, or simply we'll have to pay to obtain a fixed VMS4?

An answer will be appreciated and this is the answer that ALL VMS4 owners are waiting for.

my question is for the current owners are you guys going to replace our vms4 with the new vms4?

would be really good support if you guys did that for us. and since im local im willing to drive to you guys to replace it

Looks like they dont plan to replace existing units....instead "retrofit" them with the adapters.

emarx....i still have 2 weeks to return my unit, I know i am probably askin tough question but any idea how long it MIGHT take for the "NEW PRODUCTION"...best guess if possible. Thanks !!!

all these questions can only be answered by the official support. i will post an answer from them as soon as i have one.

Hey all,

As I said above I'm doing my best to keep you all informed on what we are doing, but I can't speak officially for how support will handle these issues because I'm not authorized to do so. If there are specific dates i.e. for new manufacturing I will make sure our support staff gets this info as soon as possible.

I already have a working sample of changes that will be used in new production which our main office is currently evaluating.

If you have any technical questions or concerns about this I'm happy to discuss here.

I have been working with the unit sine the AC show. I have found that I am now starting to have problems with the unit. I am wondering if I should wait or call in. I am to the point where I can't use the VMS for a gig. I have reverted back to my old setup. Any advice is welcomed. I am no knocking the unit I just want it to work. If this was only a cheap product I would not care and chalk it up as a lesson learned but this was some cash. I like the unit and can't wait till the bugs are worked out.

Cheers for this Elliot

If there are adaptors handed out for existing users, can we assume that these will be for the microphone inputs to fix that issue AND for the audio output to boost the signal?

Oli

Oli - There are 2 separate pieces.

An impedance adapter for the microphone.
A different power supply to boost the Master.

As far as I know this is what we are evaluating.

there will be an official announcement about the microphone issue soon.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Freshfluke:
there will be an official announcement about the microphone issue soon.

Awesome and @elliot I assume that these will be provided free of charge for current owners???

and how soon is now? Im doing a big gig in 2 weeks saturday and would love it all working as it should!!

official announcement regarding the microphone issue: soon.

That's great news but what about the low output problem. AA are saying that a more powerful power adaptor will fix this. Surely it would be best to send that out as well.

i got these about 2 days ago from ernie but i had a problem with my actual mixer. so i returned it yesterday to them and got a new one and put these on and it helped it out alot. now im just waiting to see if we get a new ac adapter for the power output soon

nice to see a company steping up to the problems instead of just giving excuses

What happened to the official announcement that was on here.....it disappeared ....

yes, it disappeared... but it will come back... there was some confusion about the date and all... hold on, everything's gonna be good soon.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Freshfluke:
yes, it disappeared... but it will come back... there was some confusion about the date and all... hold on, everything's gonna be good soon.

ok....Thanks....

Are we going to get 2 imedance matchers? After all there are 2 mic channels. Also, the problem with the imedance matchers is that they are usually about 10cm long and that would mean having to take it out of the flightcase, even though the flightcases out there for the VMS4 are designed so that the unit can be used inside the case.I have only ever seen these in (xlr input) to (6.3mm mono jack) so we will lose the balanced signal when connecting to the mic channel. Also the problem with the master output could be solved with a 2 channel active D.I.box if the new adapter tests fail. Been looking on the net for a 4 channel active D.I box, with gain and attenuation, and could only find a Behringer DI4000, unrortunately it is a rackmount unit.

After a disastrous first gig due to immense microphone distortion, I used an impedance matcher with my VMS4 for a second gig last weekend. (FYI, I use a Shure SM58 wireless mic system.) While the distortion was significantly reduced, it was definitely still there. I am still not satisfied that the impedance matcher is a bona fide solution to the microphone distortion problem. Has anyone else used the impedance matcher yet? Your thoughts?
By the way, I built a custom case for my VMS4 with a removable panel in the rear. I am fortunate to have that removable panel, otherwise the impedance matcher would not plug in without removing the VMS4 from the case (Pupenhausen)

i think that the top priority of the AA technicians should be the low level of the master volume and generally the quality of the sound.
i played on a club with a very descend sound system and i had to boost the amplifiers so that i can get the volume i wanted for the night and have no distortion from the vms4.
this affects all the vms owners!

anybobody know how to get the fixes?!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave@playitup!:
After a disastrous first gig due to immense microphone distortion, I used an impedance matcher with my VMS4 for a second gig last weekend. (FYI, I use a Shure SM58 wireless mic system.) While the distortion was significantly reduced, it was definitely still there. I am still not satisfied that the impedance matcher is a bona fide solution to the microphone distortion problem. Has anyone else used the impedance matcher yet? Your thoughts?
By the way, I built a custom case for my VMS4 with a removable panel in the rear. I am fortunate to have that removable panel, otherwise the impedance matcher would not plug in without removing the VMS4 from the case (Pupenhausen)

I had a flight case company so I am lucky enough to be able to build myself one to fit the impedance matchers, but unfortunately not everybody has these skills. Have you tried lowering the gain inside the actual mic. If u don't already know there is a -10 db gain switch inside the mic. You have to unscrew the head and it is in the top of the hand held part. This should fix your distortion problem and you might not even need to use the impedance matcher at all. I am a pro sound engineer, and I often see bands using radio mics with distortion as they have loud singers but dont realise that playing with the 'hidden' gain inside a radio mic is just as important as using the gain on the receiver or mixer.
I also had a fault were if anything was unplugged on the same mains feed as my VSM4, it would crash and need to be rebooted, not good in front of a crowd of 2000 dancing clubbers. Anyway I have given up on my SECOND VMS4 (the first was poorly built and had mic pots that grinded against the case and a grinding ch3 fader)and it has now been returned to the shop for some new gear that works out of the box with no 'retrofits'. Glad I am now rid of the VMS4 forever!

there are many SM58 wireless systems, depending on what wireless system you are using your output levels and impedance varies. IE in the Shure ULX receiver with the XLR out the signal -17dBu @ mic level but at only 22ohms of impedance. while on the PGX it is -19dBu @ mic level with 22Ohms. I have personally tested the VMS4 with the ULXS receiver and an SM58 if your audio levels RED LEd comes on when you speak in an normal voice adjust the mic gain adjustment on the transmitter (handheld or lavelier) and lowering my volume on the receiver output to about 50% so i can have headroom on the gains of the VMS4. there is also an attenuation switch for LOUD speakers or if you want to sing death metal.The Eq is also there to help you set your tone or cut off unwanted frequencies, not intended to boost your output level. Use the EQ in accommodation to you mic frequency response curve.

quote:

Originally posted by Pupenhausen:
I also had a fault were if anything was unplugged on the same mains feed as my VSM4, it would crash and need to be rebooted, not good in front of a crowd of 2000 dancing clubbers. Anyway I have given up on my SECOND VMS4 (the first was poorly built and had mic pots that grinded against the case and a grinding ch3 fader)and it has now been returned to the shop for some new gear that works out of the box with no 'retrofits'. Glad I am now rid of the VMS4 forever!

How did you have everything wired to make the VMS4 reset when something was unplugged?

It didn't reset itself, I had to reboot it manually after the unit crashed. I found this fault by accident when packing down my radio mic. I had disconnected the xlr from the VMS4, turned the receiver off from the front, then removed the power adapter. That is when the VMS4 crashes and stopped playing music in VDJ 7 PRO. The buttons become unresponsive and I then have to reboot VDJ and the VMS4. I know it wasn't VDJ which crashed as I am able to select a different soundcard in the config menu and continue playing music. I only have to reboot VDJ to gain function with the VMS4 again

Pupenhausen,
That has happened to me many times! Not cool.

quote:

Originally posted by Pupenhausen:
It didn't reset itself, I had to reboot it manually after the unit crashed. I found this fault by accident when packing down my radio mic. I had disconnected the xlr from the VMS4, turned the receiver off from the front, then removed the power adapter. That is when the VMS4 crashes and stopped playing music in VDJ 7 PRO. The buttons become unresponsive and I then have to reboot VDJ and the VMS4. I know it wasn't VDJ which crashed as I am able to select a different soundcard in the config menu and continue playing music. I only have to reboot VDJ to gain function with the VMS4 again

So your Saying that unplugging the XLR on the VMS4, Turning of the Receiver on your MIC caused the VMS4 to become unresponsive? Any one else have this problem when they unplug their MIC. Pupenhausen what type of computer are you using? sounds to me that your computer and the VMS4 loss communication so it could loose audio and or MIDI. Make sure you are using a driver supporting USB(look for the USB icon) if you loose communication between the computer and VMS4. Check your sound setting hit apply, then make sure the VMS4 is your MIDI controller. (VDJ scan for controls, traktor Select the VMS4 dont use all ports)

quote:

Originally posted by Ihearyou(American Audio):

quote:

Originally posted by Pupenhausen:
It didn't reset itself, I had to reboot it manually after the unit crashed. I found this fault by accident when packing down my radio mic. I had disconnected the xlr from the VMS4, turned the receiver off from the front, then removed the power adapter. That is when the VMS4 crashes and stopped playing music in VDJ 7 PRO. The buttons become unresponsive and I then have to reboot VDJ and the VMS4. I know it wasn't VDJ which crashed as I am able to select a different soundcard in the config menu and continue playing music. I only have to reboot VDJ to gain function with the VMS4 again

So your Saying that unplugging the XLR on the VMS4, Turning of the Receiver on your MIC caused the VMS4 to become unresponsive? Any one else have this problem when they unplug their MIC. Pupenhausen what type of computer are you using? sounds to me that your computer and the VMS4 loss communication so it could loose audio and or MIDI. Make sure you are using a driver supporting USB(look for the USB icon) if you loose communication between the computer and VMS4. Check your sound setting hit apply, then make sure the VMS4 is your MIDI controller. (VDJ scan for controls, traktor Select the VMS4 dont use all ports)

Nope. I said that after doing all of the above, it happens when I then unplug the PSU of the radio mic. It happens when any PSU from any type of equipment is unplugged on the same mains feed as the VMS4 (conventional OR anti surge mains outlets)The VMS4 must be sensitive to the voltage spike. It 100% isnt a faulty cable. I'm using an ultra high spec Alienware laptop with Windows 7. I am an A/V electronics service engineer/ sound engineer so I have a good idea how to eliminate what is and what isn't causing a fault, it's not drivers or or any other software causing the fault.

Alienware, nice machines lots of RAM built for gaming. Ok lets Trouble shoot this is your PC AMD or Intel?

If you have an AMD machine your computer can be putting the USB device to sleep this is BIOS related see if Alienware has a "AMD USB filter driver" this resolves the device IRQ priority.

If your using an intel check that you are using the latest BIOS and set your computer performance if you have your system so that windows pick whats best for visuals select best performance.

I think it is generally when something is unplugged from the same power source.

Pupenhausen, do you have the VMS4 plugged in with it's power cord or are you running strictly off of usb?

any news from AA about the fixes? time is passing and we need a time line people...

I desparately need my output boosting, it's starting to become a pain in the arse.

I am lead to believe we know what the solution is so why is it taking so long to get the parts sent out to us?

yeah i second that the output level is pants !!!

I have had my VMS4 for a few days now. everything is great( totally stable platform so far) except for the out-put level and mic. channels. The impedance matcher on the mic. helps but both problems seem to be much better with my DBX driverack in the system boosting levels to unity gain from channel strip to amp inputs.
I know that doesn't help most of you but it is a fix of sorts.

there was info up about an 'impedance matcher' for microphones. i emailed AA 3 times and have had NO REPLY!

Same issues for me.. The unit is great except for the mic and output issue... An ETA would be great.

Going to sell my VMS4 and get the Xone 4D. Should have known that AA can't solve those problems. I'm really disappointet. Anybody tried to connect turntables? When i play a track on my 1210 Mk2 trough the analog inputs, the play and cue leds start dimming. So there is definitly a problem on the power source, seems to be really weak to drive such a unit. The low output gains are one point why this console is no PRO hardware. Okay for homemixing, but nothing for professionals. I don't want to put my DJM800 between amps and vms4 everytime i use the unit. But everything else ends up in low level or distortion.

BTW, left channel on the 1. analog input is not working from first day i have the unit. Thats about "quality".

quote:

Originally posted by dbassix:
Anybody tried to connect turntables?

uhm, yes? dont see your problem over here.

quote:

BTW, left channel on the 1. analog input is not working from first day i have the unit.

well, that's something you can easily work out with the support. have you been in contact with them?

No, i haven't been in contact with support yet. I really dislike the low level output on the balanced section. thats the worst problem on the vms. Will there be just a new poweradapter or has the unit to be shipped in for replacing any parts?

quote:

Originally posted by hardwiredentertainment:
there was info up about an 'impedance matcher' for microphones. i emailed AA 3 times and have had NO REPLY!

I contacted AA ages ago, sent them all the relevant paper work (proof of purchase etc) and still heard or received nothing!

Has anybody heard anything about these power adaptors yet ? this is getting bad now i cant even be bothered to have a mix because i have to redline evrything to the point of distortion this is really not good so if i haven't heard anything within a week i think i'm gonna send it back and get the new vestax vci-100mk2

quote:

Originally posted by weephillie:
I contacted AA ages ago, sent them all the relevant paper work (proof of purchase etc) and still heard or received nothing!

please forward me the email you sent to support (including the date) and i will check internally, what's going on.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Freshfluke:

quote:

Originally posted by weephillie:
I contacted AA ages ago, sent them all the relevant paper work (proof of purchase etc) and still heard or received nothing!

please forward me the email you sent to support (including the date) and i will check internally, what's going on.

Which email address would you like me to forward it to?

same here... i sent the receipt and the serial number to support@americandj.com on Oct 16th and they didn't reply to me at all.
can you please tell us your email to forward the email we sent?
an official reply though is necessary... time is passing by

quote:

Originally posted by naysiploos:
same here... i sent the receipt and the serial number to support@americandj.com on Oct 16th and they didn't reply to me at all.
can you please tell us your email to forward the email we sent?
an official reply though is necessary... time is passing by

I also sent this to the same email. This is getting ridic COME ON AA!!!!!!

quote:

quote:

please forward me the email you sent to support (including the date) and i will check internally, what's going on.

Which email address would you like me to forward it to?

please send a mail to FRESHFLUKE [AT] FRESHFLUKE [DOT] DE

please use my email only in cases where you have trouble with the official support. "normal" questions regarding the use of the vms will be only answered here in the board, aight?

It's all good - i finally got a reply from Jan Siedentop; saying that they wont be in for a couple of weeks. Hopefully they will get on and get in in time for a big gig I have coming up in 3!

ok. hope they arrive soon!

quote:

New Production
Microphones: reducing preamp gain and using gain knob as actual gain control to eliminate distortion and improve sound quality

Headphones: Increased power supply and increased gain. Roughly 6dB improvement

Master: Increased power supply and increased gain. Roughly 12dB improvement on booth, master RCA, and master balanced circuit[QUOTE]

Means that new VMS4 is already fixed?

Sorry for my english

so are the people that have the older production going to be able to exchange there's for the new one? i like mine but the output really sucks. i had a gig last week fir the first time with mine and i had my amp up all the way and the vms4 up to #7 in the red and it wasnt as loud as my old mixer and distorted badly.

I'm having exactly the same problem m8 you'll be lucky to get an answer here AA are avoiding this issue at the moment i guess they are trying to figure out how to solve the problem without wasting money....

what they seem to forget is we have wasted £400 of our money buying something that does'nt work and are wasting more money by not being able to do gigs , i'm so fed up with waiting for a solution that i think i'm just gonna try and get my money back now.Its a real shame because i really do like it but it just does'nt work as it should.

ADJ is working out the details but i cant comment on this right now. please be patient!

It's time to obtain answers by AA, we're waiting for too long.

Hi !
There are hopes that it solves this annoying problem with master volume and headphone volume ...
is' very unpleasant to have to pay € 400 and a malfunctioning daw !!!!!

I did a test with a signal generator -4 db at 1 khz, putting all the controls: gain bass mid and high, middle position in the db input are right, also looking at the vu meter with the pfl activated are correct, disabling pfl button cue ... turning up the volume control at maximum, I see that the VU meter shows me +10 db ... ! Overload
but by measuring the output XRL are about -11 db

How much longer have I got to wait. I've paid £400 for a unit that doesn't work properly. I NEED more output volume urgently. Can you please get your finger outta ya arse, this is seriously pissing me off now!

Rant over ...do something!!!!

I know that spending more money is not a preferable situation, but since I like EVERYTHING about my VDJ unit but the low volume output, I sprung the 30 dollars for an active DI, two channel, with a Db boost on it. It's solved the low signal issue quite nicely.

Just in case any of the rest of you are looking for a solid interim solution.

what type of unit was it? how much of a boost?

Easier just to provide a link:
M-Audio Audio Buddy

Guitar Center pricing link

Despite the silly name and the fact that it's a Mic Preamp, it's doing ridiculously well for this purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by Leishu:
Easier just to provide a link:
M-Audio Audio Buddy

Guitar Center pricing link

Despite the silly name and the fact that it's a Mic Preamp, it's doing ridiculously well for this purpose.

Could you explain how this connects between the VMS4 and the mixer. I normally run the VMS4 through one channel of the clubs mixer.

Am I right to assume that this unit is to increase the output volume of the VMS4?

I can't see why you'd need to boost the VMS4 output if you're feeding it through a second mixer - just turn up the gain on the second mixer....

The gain on the channel I use is turned up full. Before I started using the VMS4 I used a separate sound card and I only needed to put the gain on the mixer halfway. The output from the VMS4 is just not enough.

Unless I'm doing something wrong and you can therefore point me in the right direction.

If you are experiencing problems with the Mic channels of your VMS4, please go to the follwoing link:

Solution VMS4 Mic channels

Nice, and what about low level output?

Hey, Gang. Wow I can't believe that these issues have not been resolved yet. I was worried that it might take some time that is why I returned mine ASAP, I had no idea that it would be the end of November and still a wait!?

Any way I really liked The VMS4 and hated to return it and would like to get a new one.

So what I would like to know is when will a "new production" VMS4 be available and how will I be able to tell it is a "new production" VMS4?

quote:

Hey, Gang. Wow I can't believe that these issues have not been resolved yet. I was worried that it might take some time that is why I returned mine ASAP, I had no idea that it would be the end of November and still a wait!?

Any way I really liked The VMS4 and hated to return it and would like to get a new one.

So what I would like to know is when will a "new production" VMS4 be available and how will I be able to tell it is a "new production" VMS4?

I totally agree with DJ Rob. Only want an approximate date.

I am waiting anxiously as well. We are all dealing with the low output with outboard gear which defeats the purpose of having a built in sound-card in the first place and adds noise, lowers the headroom and affects the width and depth of the sound-stage, so it is way less than ideal.
A fix soon please,please,please...

quote:

Originally posted by GroovinDJ:
I can't see why you'd need to boost the VMS4 output if you're feeding it through a second mixer - just turn up the gain on the second mixer....

The unit is to boost the volume of the VMS4.

For the most part, a normal gain boost when running directly into a sound board is easy. However, the output of the VMS4 is so low into other mixers (due to their nature) that I can top out the main gain, channel gain, and volume of a single "deck" and have it BARELY be audible with another device going into that mixer at neutral. At that point, of course, the distortion level is pretty much ridiculous and I've sacrificed my ability to fine tune any track's levels.

Using the M-Audio unit for that boost eliminates the possibility of distortion, providing a MAJOR boost in volume without sacrificing clarity and allows the DJ the freedom to fine-tune track by track volume, since not everything has to be maxed out to have equal audio with any other units that may be plugged into the mixer at the time.

Make sense?

Microfon-Solution:

Today the Postman brought a letter from AA! Inside two of:
http://www.shure.de/produkte/zubehoer/a85f
Don´t have to pay anything!

First test @home: Fine! But, they are not small...

I gave up waiting for the output problem to be fixed I got the feeling it never is.So I brought a behringer DI4000 around £65 connect the output of the vms4 to the inputs push it the +20db button and link the outputs to your amp and you get a 20db boost and no more red clip lights.

I just need to no now from American dj how to get the money back from them for having to buy this extra item.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI4000.aspx

Please be patient say american audio well the weeks are still passing and NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE COME ON GUYS WHAT IS GOING ON ????????

that is absolutely right!!!
this post was opened 09 October... 2 months ago and still nothing!

Hello all,

We are very busy behind the scenes making this happen. Lack of an announcement simply means that the full solution is not yet available.

I personally am overseeing all of these changes and their implementation into production. We've made and tested exactly the updates as I describe but it isn't just a matter of scribbling an idea down on a piece of paper and voila everything is fixed. Circuit boards need to be updated, retested, assembled, fixed, and redone again to ensure that everything sounds and feels pro. Then everything needs to get on the production line and shipped which by itself takes over a month.

I made the first unit with these changes by hand. It took me a full week to do this. The output noise is far from ideal and wiring is really messy, so there is no way that American DJ could do such hand made changes on a massive scale. The changes must be implemented on production circuit boards.

The current status is yes we have updated circuit boards that are being prepared for mass production. It will be a few months to actually get parts ordered, built, tested, and shipped. When everything is ready to hit the streets you will hear an official announcement from American DJ.

Ok emarx, we all appreciate the effort but the main question is still unanswered:
Owners of issues-affected VMS4 will be refunded, upgraded/replaced to a fully functional new VMS4 or simply abandoned?

quote:

Originally posted by emarx:
Hello all,

We are very busy behind the scenes making this happen. Lack of an announcement simply means that the full solution is not yet available.

I personally am overseeing all of these changes and their implementation into production. We've made and tested exactly the updates as I describe but it isn't just a matter of scribbling an idea down on a piece of paper and voila everything is fixed. Circuit boards need to be updated, retested, assembled, fixed, and redone again to ensure that everything sounds and feels pro. Then everything needs to get on the production line and shipped which by itself takes over a month.

I made the first unit with these changes by hand. It took me a full week to do this. The output noise is far from ideal and wiring is really messy, so there is no way that American DJ could do such hand made changes on a massive scale. The changes must be implemented on production circuit boards.

The current status is yes we have updated circuit boards that are being prepared for mass production. It will be a few months to actually get parts ordered, built, tested, and shipped. When everything is ready to hit the streets you will hear an official announcement from American DJ.

thx for the insightful update!

so are you telling us that the actual fix will not be available until next spring or so?
sorry but i totally disagree. we bought this unit because we liked its specs and because we are djs. we don't care about the technical difficulties to fix the wrong parts of the unit such us the sound quality and the output level.
i personally thought that a solution was almost ready but now i am really disappointed.

quote:

Originally posted by DylanDJ:
Ok emarx, we all appreciate the effort but the main question is still unanswered:
Owners of issues-affected VMS4 will be refunded, upgraded/replaced to a fully functional new VMS4 or simply abandoned?

Hello DylanDJ, et. al.:

My personal opinion is that there should be an option for existing users to get upgraded to a VMS4 with the fixes. I am definitely against what you call being "abandoned" because if you've found a legitimate design issue with the product you should have a way to get it fixed without having to pay full price again for the version with the fixes. However, this is not for me to coordinate so please wait until customer service makes an announcement similar to what they did for the microphone adapters.

quote:

Originally posted by emarx:

quote:

Originally posted by DylanDJ:
Ok emarx, we all appreciate the effort but the main question is still unanswered:
Owners of issues-affected VMS4 will be refunded, upgraded/replaced to a fully functional new VMS4 or simply abandoned?

Hello DylanDJ, et. al.:

My personal opinion is that there should be an option for existing users to get upgraded to a VMS4 with the fixes. I am definitely against what you call being "abandoned" because if you've found a legitimate design issue with the product you should have a way to get it fixed without having to pay full price again for the version with the fixes. However, this is not for me to coordinate so please wait until customer service makes an announcement similar to what they did for the microphone adaptors microphone adapters.

Would they be the same microphone adaptors that I have been waiting for for TWO MONTHS. You have all my details and you have had them before all the snow fell so you can't blame that for them not turning up!

I would like to be informed when a fix for the distorted microphone is avaliable...I need to use a different mixer for proper mic levels....thats not why i purchased the vms4 should only need the one unit!

THANKS

MARK M

quote:

Originally posted by djmaz:
I would like to be informed when a fix for the distorted microphone is avaliable...

see here: http://forums.americandj.com/e...7105965/m/9120009606

AA are sending out email flyers hinting at the VMS4 Mk2. Why is there no announcement on here?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Stardust:
AA are sending out email flyers hinting at the VMS4 Mk2. Why is there no announcement on here?

Wow...it sounds like a great incoming breaking news...
Can you post here an email flyer hinting the VMS4 Mk2?

I bought one of these units a month or so ago and thought that some of the issues raised here were being blown out of proportion. I took it out on the road the other night and wished I hadn't. Fortunately I had my old console and CDs in the car as a back up so I was able to change the unit out and interface it into the old system for mics before the party really got going. I have used it like this a few times on different amp systems.

I have been totally converted to the use of DJ software with its easy of use, playlists and the karaoke option all in the same unit. I prefer to have the outputs into a conventional mixer (not a sofware mixer) but this is a personal preference to have a backup CD player incase the PC/Software crashes I can get music back on in seconds not in 5-10 minutes. The VMS4 is absolutely ideal for this and a dream to work on - appart from the technical issues:

1. Mic Inputs - lack of headroom/gain between pre-amp and gain control-amp - even on good quality low output mics.
2. Main Output - lack of volume/power on balanced output for some amps
3. Main Output - lots of background dirty noise caused by cross contamination - need to turn the amps down and the mixer right up - not ideal
4. Lack of headphone volume - my Sony headphones were fine but my backup pair aren't loud enough when the volume is up in the height of a party

Given the number of significant problems on the current issue of the VSM4 it would seem the only logical solution to overcomming such significant design flaws. As a qualified electronics engineer I cannot see how AA are going to overcome some of the problems without changes to the main circuit board as it isn't going to be something that can be overcome by a few simple changes to the onboard firmware program. These issues need alterations to the actual harware and components.

From a selfish perspective I can see only a few solution at present - they all start off by selling the thing as it is and:
a. wait for a Mk2 with these issues removed,
b. try a number of competitors products as a direct replacement,
c. get a DJ controller to run virtual DJ or similar software and then use either a mixer with built in multi-channel usb sound card (citronic have a nice one but I personally don't like the tiny layout) or use a conventional mixer with a separate usb souncard off the laptop - prefered option but none offer the quality of build or all in one solution offered by the VMS4.

All I can say is that in hindsight I think AA should have withdrawn the item or stopped production before it got to this stage. This would have allowed them to re-disign the boards without these problems - at present their reputation is significantly damaged. I do appreciate that the time taking to sort this may be due to the fact that they don't want to worsent the situation and they want to test proposed solutions before issuing them - they should have fully road tested the unit before it went to market first time.

Either way it results in having to take a hit on the VSM4 as I can't see AA offering a swap service to existing customers to get a sorted MK2 and I need a solution now not in 3-6 months time. (Based on this forum history they knew about these issues within a couple of months of issuing and there has been very little movement in the last 3 months - except for mic transformers which could have beeen done in a couple of weeks).

I shall leave the issue of 'goods reasonably fit for purpose' as required by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to someone with legal qualifications as this is not my area of expertise, but it is worth remembering that this item is meant as a professionals tool and not a bedroom toy.

All in all a bit of a let down as I had looked forward to this for quite a while and finally decided to go for it in time for Christmas party season. Just have to wait and see what else is out there.

great post derek..

i use mine 5 nights a week. i run mine directly into the house mixer so the volume level issue does not effect me as much. AA was ahead of the curve on alot of this mixer/controller innovation. the first real midi-log mixer was bound to have issues. i knowing that I STILL BOUGHT IT. it was one of a kind and their newer models down the line will be that much better for these lessons. i will sell mine in the near future for either the new mk model or a competitor model. AA always gives you good technology at a great price.

I'm pretty new to all this technical audio stuff but in regards to the low RCA output on the vms4, could you use something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/TC-780LC...ooster/dp/B000RZXAHI

I've found several line level boosters like the linked one, but most seem designed for small stereos or home theater systems. Would this cause unwanted distortion or noise when used with more powerful systems?

quote:

Originally posted by PandAura:
I'm pretty new to all this technical audio stuff but in regards to the low RCA output on the vms4, could you use something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/TC-780LC...ooster/dp/B000RZXAHI

I've found several line level boosters like the linked one, but most seem designed for small stereos or home theater systems. Would this cause unwanted distortion or noise when used with more powerful systems?

I'm using this device without problems : http://www.musicstore.com/en_E...e/art-PAH0000111-000

Hi PandAura - in general terms most units providing a line level or balanced output as appropriate should be suitable. Weather its a DI (direct inject) box, an active crossover or just the output of a different mixer the amp will just do what it is designed to do - amplify it.

The output problems arising are generally dependant on the input type and inpedance of the amplifier itself - its actually the one thing that AA can't control however most units deliver over quite a wide tollerance band where as the VMS4 is right at the lower end of this band - hence the problems. This is the first time that I can remember I have come across a mixer of of this size that runs from 5V supply. They are usually around 7.5-9v although I understand why 5v will become popular as this simplifies design issues relating to USB connections etc.

The real point is - this unit was deigned not to need external assistance. Although the additonal cost of such an item is undesirable in real business terms it is small - its the inconvienince of more kit to set up every time.

On a sparate note I would point out that I have a variety of other AA equipment, particularly lighting effects, that are well made, rugged, very reliable and would thouroughly recommend. I am not saying I would never buy any of their products in the future as appart from the VMS4 I am impressed with their kit. They just need to hold their hands up, admit they have an issue (which they have so far) and ultimately get it sorted promptly - which seems to be their downfall.

gizmojmo - I have seen others that have used that as well with no prolems. But at my regular gig I just connect into the house mixer through RCA and it looks like that box only has XLR out, I would like to avoid any XLR/RCA adapters.

Derek - Ya I understand people were expecting this to be a contained all you need unit and were dissapointed when it had low output volume as compared to units over twice the price of it... I knew all this and I still bought the vms4. The next comparable piece of gear that I have found is the S4, which is $400 more, all plastic, and not without its own glitches and problems. If I have to spend an additional $100-$200 to boost the output then I am still saving money as compared to the S4.

I should be getting my VMS4 today! And my next gig is wednesday so I will find out then how the output is, I'm just trying to weigh in my options if I do get a lower than exceptable output as some users have reported.

I know there has been rumors going around about American dj coming out with another VMS4 well I don't think this is happening . I talked to a few people at American Dj and they are not building a new VMS4 . This rumor was spread by a pissed off customer .

@pumpitdj: We don't come on here to spread rumors. These things we are testing and improving right now.

@Derek: You are also an electronics engineer, and you realize that resolving these issues isn't trivial and requires PC board changes.

All of the 4 issues on your last post are issues we are fixing.

MICs: Giving them all of the preamp headroom they need without distortion
Output level: 4x level boost = 16x power boost
Output noise: lowering the background noise
Headphones: 2x level boost = 4x power boost

There have been at least three flyers from AA/ADJ mailed out, talking about the "new version" of the VMS4, and saying that it will be shown at NAMM in around a weeks time.

So, hopefully as my original is only 5 months old, I get a free upgrade - right Elliot?

I will hope so, too

Mine is only 4 months old and was 2 times in service an 1 time changed

i will be returning mine this week after getting 3 units to try out. the sound card is just sub par for ANY real PRO djing. it can't handle TC control but after 5 months of being released there's a new version coming out....hmmmmmmmmmm makes you think. RUSH MUCH. i'll just stick with AA/ADJ for lighting cause that's all they seem to be good for. tried out an "amp" and i use that term lightly cause the rated 800 watts sounded more like 80 on my sub. but i digress...............

quote:

Originally posted by emarx:
@pumpitdj: We don't come on here to spread rumors. These things we are testing and improving right now.

@Derek: You are also an electronics engineer, and you realize that resolving these issues isn't trivial and requires PC board changes.

All of the 4 issues on your last post are issues we are fixing.

MICs: Giving them all of the preamp headroom they need without distortion
Output level: 4x level boost = 16x power boost
Output noise: lowering the background noise
Headphones: 2x level boost = 4x power boost

there are news?

The "old VMS4" community wait a retrofit... How gone the "Haltest" or road test to?

Is possible to self made the variation? Or is possible to have the scheme for our support and idea, this controller is a "open controller" say ADJ.

Thanks

I wish I had hooked this thing up to my main system earlier, I've had it since October, so I bet I can't return it. I hope once all these issues are resolved we can trade them in for a unit that might actually meet the printed specs.

My phone call to customer support was a joke, he didn't even acknowledge there was a problem.

I haven't had problems with headphone output, but have had the mic issue, and low output problem, as shown below. For now, my low audio and microphone audio fix will be accomplished by using a Behringer 1002, or Mackie 1402VLZ3

The following test was conducted yesterday by putting a .775v signal source into an analog channel of the VMS4.

does how long that the microphone retrofit take take to arrive? im being waiting for a month now.

@TulsaDJ

Can you explain me the details how you did this very interesstiun test and what the numbers on the graph are for (0 - 1 and 60 - 20000)?

The vertical is the voltage measured, the horizontal is frequency, so you can see the VMS has a slight high frequency drop off. I haven't calculated what it would be in db, but a slight EQ might bring that up.

I have a signal generator that I set the output as close to 0.775 volts as I could. 0.775 volts is 0dbu, which is represented by the red line.

I then fed this into each of the 3 mixers and measured the output on the XLR outputs across the frequency spectrum from 60hz to 20khz.

The VMS testing was done using an analog channel, I'll do another measurement using a ripped test tone running through Virtual DJ, but I expect to see the same results. As long as the meter on the mixer says 0db, the output should be close to 0.775 volts... not 0.210 volts.

Thanks for the great graph. I knew we were dealing with a serious problem re the output level but that is a huge difference (.775 volts vs. .210 volts) I can't imagine how the design or test team at AA didn't get this fixed before all these units got shipped out. I for one will be seriously upset if they do not offer a suitable fix.
Having said that I still feel it to be a great tool and I feel pretty sure they are going to fix this for us.
Keeping my fingers crossed...

WHY HAVE I STILL NOT BEEN SENT MY ADAPTORS YET? LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE THEIRS. YOU HAVE MY DETAILS ...SO SORT IT PLEASE. THIS IS A JOKE!!!