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Hi guys,

Firsty an introduction. I am a verteran DJ with over 20 years of vinyl playing across Europe (and a little in the states), last year I made the switch do DVS mainly for the smaller clubs and bars that have vibration issues (vinyl guys know this problem well). I had been using both systems for the last 3 or 4 years.

Anyway, I pre-ordered my VMS4 some time ago, but I was left wondering about a number of issues.

Firstly I have to say I did complain bitterly about the loss of Traktor after I bought it!

I had questions relating to the output. As most people know here 16bit sound is not good enough for the larger venues (anyone arguing this point is probably a bedroom DJ or partially deaf). The good news is that the unit WILL do 24bit if the firmware is changed to Pre_EQ. The firmware updater will be included in the release. They say they are the only company to make this happen (thats not entirely true, but certainly thay are one of the very few companies to do this and it shows they were listening to the DJ's making the request).

I asked if they had given up on making the unit Traktor Ready / Traktor certified .... they have no plans to make this happen (shame that was the main reason for me pre-ordering the unit !).

They will however be including Traktor maps, I assume this will be all versions of Traktor including scratch pro. They have told me that there's unit WILL NOT succesfully use Traktor timecode vinyl, you will still need an NI Audio-8 at £399 to get Traktor timecode working (ie disable the internal sound, configure traktor to use the Audio8 etc.).

Also for those people needing a case, on removal of the corner sections, it will fit nicely into a regular 19" case - so no need to have something built for it.

The engineering staff have been very good in sharing the information, but it's slow to come and I really needed to press them for it.

One thing that did annoy me and still does, this unit is marketed as a 4 channel mixer and then they ship it with the rubbish VDJ software, which is not capable of 4 decks (unless you run two instances of the program across two monitors). I have used all the available software on the market and (sorry to the fan boys of VDJ) VDJ does not cut it as professional software for todays market.

Traktor is the only true 4 deck solution.

So guys to use the controller as intended, as a 4 deck solution with sound and DVS, you still need to buy Traktor Scratch Pro with an Audio 8. Disable the internal sound and import the .tsi's that will be included on release.

Perhaps two versions of the controller could have been made, one without any sound (like the Vestax VCI) and one truely Traktor certified, with a full 4 deck 24bit sound solution that doesn't require us to use the Audio 8 from NI.

Anyone saying I should use VDJ, please resist the temptation to tell me, I have used it and it's for bedroom DJ's not pro's. I have tested all solutions and Traktor wins everytime, telling me to use the VDJ will no doubt pi$$ me off, it's only won awards because it's one of the cheapest full DVS solutions, but until it's as accurate as Traktor, has 4 decks and decent effects (beat grid, beat slicer, advance control, loops/cue points on the fly etc.) then it's never going to be taken seriously.

I will give more information as I receive it, and if anyone has Traktor questions, or how to set up a laptop correctly for digital audio, message me, i will help where I can.

Mark Stewart
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I've just spent (or wasted) 4 hours trying a four deck solution with VDJ.

First thing to note, you require two copies of the program to be running at the same tme on the same machine (make sure you have lots of free RAM)

Second you need to download one of the "community created" skins for multi-instance playback. DO NOT switch them into full screen, they have to be in windowed mode (i don't like that at all ...hmmmph !)


This is where it all goes wrong. I could not for the life of me get decent sound/latency and beat lock at the same time. When running multiple decks the beat lock is number one on the requirements list. I have spent hours trying to configue this system to work and it's on a monster PC quad cores with 16Gb DDR2 1066 memory and raptor disks & Audio 8 / fast track pro, or sapphire pro, and it wouldn't play properly, as soon as I switch to the second instance of VDJ the beatlock slows down the playback and sounds terrible. I haven't even got to the timecode issues yet ! This is before I port it over to run on my live laptop Roll Eyes

My advice for those who want a four deck solution, turn the VDJ software into a nice coaster and get Traktor, yes you have to spend more money Mad, but it's better than wasting hours trying to get decks to sync. Traktor works directly out of the box, VDJ needs a lot of changing settings, loading patches/skins etc ... It might work for someone else, but this is not what I need in a "live environment".
Thanks for the additional info. It truly is hard to come by. I actually posted a question regarding the EQ and sound, without any luck for a reply. So its good to know it can be changed to pre-eq.
As for traktor and vdj issue. True traktor is a good piece of software. But I have used both and usually im using two decks and in that case...really there is no difference which you use then. Yes, lack of effects and such, but I dont really rely on effects for my mixing (for electronic music) so dont need to start up my traktor. but screw that discussion, what im interested in finding out is more about the VMS4
Hi there Souf, nice to know that the forums are in use. I agree if you are a two deck man then VDJ is okay, however this is marketed as a 4 deck midi solution and the software they will ship isn't capable of 4 decks without some big headaches. This point has been raised by many people on a number of forums, but it falls on deaf ears.

I guess from the information I have from the engineering team, the pre-post EQ discussion promted them to make some changes, it does however mean disabling the analogue EQ and using the computers emulated EQ.

This won't bother me as I connect direct into my master mixer anyway as we do shows with two DJ's battling (8 deck !), i use a Behringer DDM4000 as a master clock and it's brilliant, works first time and more accurate than the EVO5 at €1500 !

I am certainly open minded about this unit, although it seems that "some" of the proposed (read marketing) capabilities have been dropped.#

PS I have just found out that the cracked version of Traktor Scratch Pro 1.2.4 works with any soundcard, we had it running 4 decks with Timecode through a number of external soundcards, so the limitation of Traktor is software crippling ...(NI protecting their hardware sales), I won't be selling my Audio8 just yet, but who knows ?

I will be publishing my .tsi's for TSP if anyone needs them (just as soon as the box arrives !)
Now too each their own. I have been a VDJ user for about 7 years now, and I find it quite good at what I need from it. To blatently call it Bedroom DJ software, and not "Pro" just because it doesn't fit your needs, is a little off base. I started on 1200's in '88, and moved onto CDJ's around 2000, and went completely VDJ about 3 years ago. I can mix fine with a midi controller, and I run 2 instances. One per computer. You see I am a "professional DJ" and I earn over $1K per gig, I am not a DVS DJ, so VDJ may not be the best DVS, but I can mix music and music videos flawlessly on VDJ, and get paid very well. So please just stop the flaming on VDJ, because if you read the rules, that have been in the "Important Announcements" section of the forum since 2006 (and I just featured in this section as well), we do not allow flaming, of members or products....

Now you are entitled to not like VDJ, but to please refrain from referring to it as "non pro" software, since it is a tool that many professionals use. PS I use a DJM-800 with rotaries, because of the style of mixing I do, but I wouldn't tell a DJ with a TTM-57 that his equipment is not professional, just because it doesn't suit my needs. Get the point?
so you have a fully wring 4 deck solution with beatlock, if you have show me how !

I have given up trying on a quadcore with 16GB DDR2 1066 RAM with all kinds of soundcard.

It doesn't work! ... how is that a "pro" 4 deck solution? this is before i've even tried on the less powerful laptop

so i defend my statement the software is rubbish for this job! - which is 4 deck
I said it may not suit your needs. I run them on 2 seperate laptops, and the beatlock is my ears. When I used to play on 4 CD players, I had to really on my ears and skills to match multiple tracks and still do. I didn't let the software match everything for me. I am just saying, different people like different tools. I am glad you love Traktor, Some people love Serato, and I have never seen a 4 deck serato running on one machine, but I also never hear anyone say it wasn't pro caliber software. I wish you luck getting everything set up to suit your needs.
who uses a piece of software does not make it Pro or not, it's the build quality for the job in hand. VDJ is not 4 deck, traktor was designed from the start to be 4 deck, minimal latency, minimal fuss !

As for 4 deck serato thats coming this year, for what I've seen it's pretty good too.

You can't use just your ears to pull off the controllerism tricks that digital DJ'ing expects thesedays..... ask an expert, Ean Golden, Richie Hawtin, Carl Cox, Pete Tong, Carl Craig and of course the man himself, Grandmaster Flash !
I'm talking about multiple loops, cue points, a couple of tracks running at the same time, lay on a few loops, pull off some crazy loop mashup and have the next song cued and waiting, ready ... it's what the Ableton guys do, but live not pre-arranged in the studio.

And before I get really angry ...


the fooooking needs of the unit are not being served ! It's sold as a FOUR DECK SOLUTION

VDJ is not 4 deck (not without major headaches)

that is not PROFESSIONAL, it was not designed for the job in hand of 4 decks MIDI mixing in a live environment.

you don't buy a 4 wheel drive only to realise that it's 2 wheel drive most of the time, but there's a page in the back of the handbook saying you can get 4 wheel drive, but the radio and airconditioning stop working and the brakes might be a little dodgy.

If you can beatlock with your ears as to say, make a video proving you can do it across 4 decks with VDJ ... you will be alone.

However look on youtube for the thousands of beginers who can use 4 decks on Traktor.

I am not a fanboy (which it seems you are) I gave Native Intruments a really hard time when they screwed up the 1.2 release, they realised they got it wrong, fixed the problems, and everyone is happy.

If there was a new soultion tomorrow and it was better than Traktor I would move in a shot, I have no loyalty to any company, i buy products to suit the job in hand.

This approach has me reviewing kit for all manner of people and magazines
Again, it's not about being a fanboy. It's about I spin music and music videos at Weddings, Proms, School Dances, Mitzvah's, ect. I cannot do video in Traktor, so it does not suit my needs, but I never said Traktor is not pro equipment. You are being defensive, and not reading my posts with an open mind. I just said for the 5th time
Just because it does not fit YOUR needs, does not make it any less PRO SOFTWARE

I do music video in my performances, so if I wasn't digital, I would use DVJ 1000's, but that wouldn't make CDJ 1000's less professional, because they couldn't do the job that I need. I try to respect all DJ's, and their individual talents, and the equipment that they use to get the job done.

So let's put an end to this now.
Traktor = you love, so use it.
VDJ = Does not fit your needs, so don't use it.

So now enjoy the VMS and Traktor, and rock your parties.
Obviously something in your head doesn't allow the words FOUR DECK SOLUTION to register.

VDJ Pro IS NOT A FOUR DECK SOLUTION is was never meant to be. Look in the VDJ forums:-

(a) they don't have a four deck solution that works on one machine that is "out of the box" and able to to function correctly without additional skins, limitations etc.

(b) the timecode problems still causes many problems, so much tech support have called it "natural vinyl drift" - which is marketing BS for can't get it to lock

(c)This was never meant to be a four deck solution, it's was never designed to be a full time four deck workhorse for club installations - ask the programmers, I did !

The VMS4 is marketed as the worlds first complete 4 deck solution, but without the the appropriate software it is unable to do what it is designed to do.

Those people (myself included) who got excited talking to the guys at NAMM about the "WORLDS FIRST COMPLETE FOUR DECK SOLUTION" are now expected to buy additional software to deliver the functionality of the solution they bought into.......... they even spoke to me about a special version of tracktor LE being built and shipped with the unit as they knew that the other software vendors couldn't produce a working solution. I even have it on video !

Or we could do what you suggest, by another laptop, crate that around with the other one and then try to pull off the complex shuffles, loops and creative work that controllerism requires ....BY EAR. Big Grin

So you are buying a device that is a 4 deck club soultion, so you can take two laptops and play by ear ... well done you .... you make me laugh, prove to me that 4 deck (by ear) mixing can be done, by recording a mix for us to hear ...

You know the same way that school kids with no talent can do with the correct software ! like the thousands on youtube, there's nothing on there about 4 deck VDJ ! ...

I respect people/DJ's who know what they are talking about, shame you seem to know nothing about modern club work.....the complexaties of "modern" DJ'ing ..

BTW I also ran a mobile DJ business for many years and now mostly just hire the gear out, it's not DJ work, simply one off one on and a bit of microphone technique ... you don't impress anyone sir with your school dances....

NOTE to the moderators, if you want to ban me fine, the same discussions are going on in ALL the major DJ forums.

The desicion to switch from VMS4 + NI's Traktor a true 4 deck solution, to VMS4 and VDJ a two deck solution with a 4 deck meaning buying another laptop and accepting "drift" and beatlock problems was a stupid one, it also puts the VMS4 in the "toy" bracket with the Hercules DJ/Steel/RMX (which with the correct software behind it is quite good !).

This device could have been competition for the VCI100/300/TR1 from Vestax, or along the lines of the many other devices on the European market.

However if ADJ's target audience is the bedroom / school disco DJ, then they got it right, though remember a controller is only as good as the software allows, with VDJ it's won't be taken seriously in the clubs because it can't deliver what it promises (without some major investment - why do that when you can buy a Korg04 for less).

So I will enjoy the controller, I will continue working with Traktor Scratch Pro until someone makes a better solution, i will publish my .tsi's and continue building my own midi controllers, and if I ever weant to go back to two decks, I have my SL1210 Mk5G's and 25 years of vinyl collecting - a different style of DJ'ing that is nothing in comparison to the new levels expected in a modern club.

Unless you have anything constructive about the subject (or can give me real facts) SHUT THE F UP.

FOUR DECK SOLUTION means FOUR WORKING DECKS, in time, without problems and straight from the box.
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