AA are sending out email flyers hinting at the VMS4 Mk2. Why is there no announcement on here?
quote:Originally posted by DJ Stardust:
AA are sending out email flyers hinting at the VMS4 Mk2. Why is there no announcement on here?
Wow...it sounds like a great incoming breaking news...
Can you post here an email flyer hinting the VMS4 Mk2?
I bought one of these units a month or so ago and thought that some of the issues raised here were being blown out of proportion. I took it out on the road the other night and wished I hadn't. Fortunately I had my old console and CDs in the car as a back up so I was able to change the unit out and interface it into the old system for mics before the party really got going. I have used it like this a few times on different amp systems.
I have been totally converted to the use of DJ software with its easy of use, playlists and the karaoke option all in the same unit. I prefer to have the outputs into a conventional mixer (not a sofware mixer) but this is a personal preference to have a backup CD player incase the PC/Software crashes I can get music back on in seconds not in 5-10 minutes. The VMS4 is absolutely ideal for this and a dream to work on - appart from the technical issues:
1. Mic Inputs - lack of headroom/gain between pre-amp and gain control-amp - even on good quality low output mics.
2. Main Output - lack of volume/power on balanced output for some amps
3. Main Output - lots of background dirty noise caused by cross contamination - need to turn the amps down and the mixer right up - not ideal
4. Lack of headphone volume - my Sony headphones were fine but my backup pair aren't loud enough when the volume is up in the height of a party
Given the number of significant problems on the current issue of the VSM4 it would seem the only logical solution to overcomming such significant design flaws. As a qualified electronics engineer I cannot see how AA are going to overcome some of the problems without changes to the main circuit board as it isn't going to be something that can be overcome by a few simple changes to the onboard firmware program. These issues need alterations to the actual harware and components.
From a selfish perspective I can see only a few solution at present - they all start off by selling the thing as it is and:
a. wait for a Mk2 with these issues removed,
b. try a number of competitors products as a direct replacement,
c. get a DJ controller to run virtual DJ or similar software and then use either a mixer with built in multi-channel usb sound card (citronic have a nice one but I personally don't like the tiny layout) or use a conventional mixer with a separate usb souncard off the laptop - prefered option but none offer the quality of build or all in one solution offered by the VMS4.
All I can say is that in hindsight I think AA should have withdrawn the item or stopped production before it got to this stage. This would have allowed them to re-disign the boards without these problems - at present their reputation is significantly damaged. I do appreciate that the time taking to sort this may be due to the fact that they don't want to worsent the situation and they want to test proposed solutions before issuing them - they should have fully road tested the unit before it went to market first time.
Either way it results in having to take a hit on the VSM4 as I can't see AA offering a swap service to existing customers to get a sorted MK2 and I need a solution now not in 3-6 months time. (Based on this forum history they knew about these issues within a couple of months of issuing and there has been very little movement in the last 3 months - except for mic transformers which could have beeen done in a couple of weeks).
I shall leave the issue of 'goods reasonably fit for purpose' as required by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to someone with legal qualifications as this is not my area of expertise, but it is worth remembering that this item is meant as a professionals tool and not a bedroom toy.
All in all a bit of a let down as I had looked forward to this for quite a while and finally decided to go for it in time for Christmas party season. Just have to wait and see what else is out there.
I have been totally converted to the use of DJ software with its easy of use, playlists and the karaoke option all in the same unit. I prefer to have the outputs into a conventional mixer (not a sofware mixer) but this is a personal preference to have a backup CD player incase the PC/Software crashes I can get music back on in seconds not in 5-10 minutes. The VMS4 is absolutely ideal for this and a dream to work on - appart from the technical issues:
1. Mic Inputs - lack of headroom/gain between pre-amp and gain control-amp - even on good quality low output mics.
2. Main Output - lack of volume/power on balanced output for some amps
3. Main Output - lots of background dirty noise caused by cross contamination - need to turn the amps down and the mixer right up - not ideal
4. Lack of headphone volume - my Sony headphones were fine but my backup pair aren't loud enough when the volume is up in the height of a party
Given the number of significant problems on the current issue of the VSM4 it would seem the only logical solution to overcomming such significant design flaws. As a qualified electronics engineer I cannot see how AA are going to overcome some of the problems without changes to the main circuit board as it isn't going to be something that can be overcome by a few simple changes to the onboard firmware program. These issues need alterations to the actual harware and components.
From a selfish perspective I can see only a few solution at present - they all start off by selling the thing as it is and:
a. wait for a Mk2 with these issues removed,
b. try a number of competitors products as a direct replacement,
c. get a DJ controller to run virtual DJ or similar software and then use either a mixer with built in multi-channel usb sound card (citronic have a nice one but I personally don't like the tiny layout) or use a conventional mixer with a separate usb souncard off the laptop - prefered option but none offer the quality of build or all in one solution offered by the VMS4.
All I can say is that in hindsight I think AA should have withdrawn the item or stopped production before it got to this stage. This would have allowed them to re-disign the boards without these problems - at present their reputation is significantly damaged. I do appreciate that the time taking to sort this may be due to the fact that they don't want to worsent the situation and they want to test proposed solutions before issuing them - they should have fully road tested the unit before it went to market first time.
Either way it results in having to take a hit on the VSM4 as I can't see AA offering a swap service to existing customers to get a sorted MK2 and I need a solution now not in 3-6 months time. (Based on this forum history they knew about these issues within a couple of months of issuing and there has been very little movement in the last 3 months - except for mic transformers which could have beeen done in a couple of weeks).
I shall leave the issue of 'goods reasonably fit for purpose' as required by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to someone with legal qualifications as this is not my area of expertise, but it is worth remembering that this item is meant as a professionals tool and not a bedroom toy.
All in all a bit of a let down as I had looked forward to this for quite a while and finally decided to go for it in time for Christmas party season. Just have to wait and see what else is out there.
great post derek..
i use mine 5 nights a week. i run mine directly into the house mixer so the volume level issue does not effect me as much. AA was ahead of the curve on alot of this mixer/controller innovation. the first real midi-log mixer was bound to have issues. i knowing that I STILL BOUGHT IT. it was one of a kind and their newer models down the line will be that much better for these lessons. i will sell mine in the near future for either the new mk model or a competitor model. AA always gives you good technology at a great price.
i use mine 5 nights a week. i run mine directly into the house mixer so the volume level issue does not effect me as much. AA was ahead of the curve on alot of this mixer/controller innovation. the first real midi-log mixer was bound to have issues. i knowing that I STILL BOUGHT IT. it was one of a kind and their newer models down the line will be that much better for these lessons. i will sell mine in the near future for either the new mk model or a competitor model. AA always gives you good technology at a great price.
I'm pretty new to all this technical audio stuff but in regards to the low RCA output on the vms4, could you use something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/TC-780LC...ooster/dp/B000RZXAHI
I've found several line level boosters like the linked one, but most seem designed for small stereos or home theater systems. Would this cause unwanted distortion or noise when used with more powerful systems?
http://www.amazon.com/TC-780LC...ooster/dp/B000RZXAHI
I've found several line level boosters like the linked one, but most seem designed for small stereos or home theater systems. Would this cause unwanted distortion or noise when used with more powerful systems?
quote:Originally posted by PandAura:
I'm pretty new to all this technical audio stuff but in regards to the low RCA output on the vms4, could you use something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/TC-780LC...ooster/dp/B000RZXAHI
I've found several line level boosters like the linked one, but most seem designed for small stereos or home theater systems. Would this cause unwanted distortion or noise when used with more powerful systems?
I'm using this device without problems : http://www.musicstore.com/en_E...e/art-PAH0000111-000
Hi PandAura - in general terms most units providing a line level or balanced output as appropriate should be suitable. Weather its a DI (direct inject) box, an active crossover or just the output of a different mixer the amp will just do what it is designed to do - amplify it.
The output problems arising are generally dependant on the input type and inpedance of the amplifier itself - its actually the one thing that AA can't control however most units deliver over quite a wide tollerance band where as the VMS4 is right at the lower end of this band - hence the problems. This is the first time that I can remember I have come across a mixer of of this size that runs from 5V supply. They are usually around 7.5-9v although I understand why 5v will become popular as this simplifies design issues relating to USB connections etc.
The real point is - this unit was deigned not to need external assistance. Although the additonal cost of such an item is undesirable in real business terms it is small - its the inconvienince of more kit to set up every time.
On a sparate note I would point out that I have a variety of other AA equipment, particularly lighting effects, that are well made, rugged, very reliable and would thouroughly recommend. I am not saying I would never buy any of their products in the future as appart from the VMS4 I am impressed with their kit. They just need to hold their hands up, admit they have an issue (which they have so far) and ultimately get it sorted promptly - which seems to be their downfall.
The output problems arising are generally dependant on the input type and inpedance of the amplifier itself - its actually the one thing that AA can't control however most units deliver over quite a wide tollerance band where as the VMS4 is right at the lower end of this band - hence the problems. This is the first time that I can remember I have come across a mixer of of this size that runs from 5V supply. They are usually around 7.5-9v although I understand why 5v will become popular as this simplifies design issues relating to USB connections etc.
The real point is - this unit was deigned not to need external assistance. Although the additonal cost of such an item is undesirable in real business terms it is small - its the inconvienince of more kit to set up every time.
On a sparate note I would point out that I have a variety of other AA equipment, particularly lighting effects, that are well made, rugged, very reliable and would thouroughly recommend. I am not saying I would never buy any of their products in the future as appart from the VMS4 I am impressed with their kit. They just need to hold their hands up, admit they have an issue (which they have so far) and ultimately get it sorted promptly - which seems to be their downfall.
gizmojmo - I have seen others that have used that as well with no prolems. But at my regular gig I just connect into the house mixer through RCA and it looks like that box only has XLR out, I would like to avoid any XLR/RCA adapters.
Derek - Ya I understand people were expecting this to be a contained all you need unit and were dissapointed when it had low output volume as compared to units over twice the price of it... I knew all this and I still bought the vms4. The next comparable piece of gear that I have found is the S4, which is $400 more, all plastic, and not without its own glitches and problems. If I have to spend an additional $100-$200 to boost the output then I am still saving money as compared to the S4.
I should be getting my VMS4 today! And my next gig is wednesday so I will find out then how the output is, I'm just trying to weigh in my options if I do get a lower than exceptable output as some users have reported.
Derek - Ya I understand people were expecting this to be a contained all you need unit and were dissapointed when it had low output volume as compared to units over twice the price of it... I knew all this and I still bought the vms4. The next comparable piece of gear that I have found is the S4, which is $400 more, all plastic, and not without its own glitches and problems. If I have to spend an additional $100-$200 to boost the output then I am still saving money as compared to the S4.
I should be getting my VMS4 today! And my next gig is wednesday so I will find out then how the output is, I'm just trying to weigh in my options if I do get a lower than exceptable output as some users have reported.
I know there has been rumors going around about American dj coming out with another VMS4 well I don't think this is happening . I talked to a few people at American Dj and they are not building a new VMS4 . This rumor was spread by a pissed off customer .
@pumpitdj: We don't come on here to spread rumors. These things we are testing and improving right now.
@Derek: You are also an electronics engineer, and you realize that resolving these issues isn't trivial and requires PC board changes.
All of the 4 issues on your last post are issues we are fixing.
MICs: Giving them all of the preamp headroom they need without distortion
Output level: 4x level boost = 16x power boost
Output noise: lowering the background noise
Headphones: 2x level boost = 4x power boost
@Derek: You are also an electronics engineer, and you realize that resolving these issues isn't trivial and requires PC board changes.
All of the 4 issues on your last post are issues we are fixing.
MICs: Giving them all of the preamp headroom they need without distortion
Output level: 4x level boost = 16x power boost
Output noise: lowering the background noise
Headphones: 2x level boost = 4x power boost
There have been at least three flyers from AA/ADJ mailed out, talking about the "new version" of the VMS4, and saying that it will be shown at NAMM in around a weeks time.
So, hopefully as my original is only 5 months old, I get a free upgrade - right Elliot?
So, hopefully as my original is only 5 months old, I get a free upgrade - right Elliot?
I will hope so, too
Mine is only 4 months old and was 2 times in service an 1 time changed
Mine is only 4 months old and was 2 times in service an 1 time changed
i will be returning mine this week after getting 3 units to try out. the sound card is just sub par for ANY real PRO djing. it can't handle TC control but after 5 months of being released there's a new version coming out....hmmmmmmmmmm makes you think. RUSH MUCH. i'll just stick with AA/ADJ for lighting cause that's all they seem to be good for. tried out an "amp" and i use that term lightly cause the rated 800 watts sounded more like 80 on my sub. but i digress...............
quote:Originally posted by emarx:
@pumpitdj: We don't come on here to spread rumors. These things we are testing and improving right now.
@Derek: You are also an electronics engineer, and you realize that resolving these issues isn't trivial and requires PC board changes.
All of the 4 issues on your last post are issues we are fixing.
MICs: Giving them all of the preamp headroom they need without distortion
Output level: 4x level boost = 16x power boost
Output noise: lowering the background noise
Headphones: 2x level boost = 4x power boost
there are news?
The "old VMS4" community wait a retrofit... How gone the "Haltest" or road test to?
Is possible to self made the variation? Or is possible to have the scheme for our support and idea, this controller is a "open controller" say ADJ.
Thanks
I wish I had hooked this thing up to my main system earlier, I've had it since October, so I bet I can't return it. I hope once all these issues are resolved we can trade them in for a unit that might actually meet the printed specs.
My phone call to customer support was a joke, he didn't even acknowledge there was a problem.
I haven't had problems with headphone output, but have had the mic issue, and low output problem, as shown below. For now, my low audio and microphone audio fix will be accomplished by using a Behringer 1002, or Mackie 1402VLZ3
The following test was conducted yesterday by putting a .775v signal source into an analog channel of the VMS4.
My phone call to customer support was a joke, he didn't even acknowledge there was a problem.
I haven't had problems with headphone output, but have had the mic issue, and low output problem, as shown below. For now, my low audio and microphone audio fix will be accomplished by using a Behringer 1002, or Mackie 1402VLZ3
The following test was conducted yesterday by putting a .775v signal source into an analog channel of the VMS4.
does how long that the microphone retrofit take take to arrive? im being waiting for a month now.
@TulsaDJ
Can you explain me the details how you did this very interesstiun test and what the numbers on the graph are for (0 - 1 and 60 - 20000)?
Can you explain me the details how you did this very interesstiun test and what the numbers on the graph are for (0 - 1 and 60 - 20000)?
The vertical is the voltage measured, the horizontal is frequency, so you can see the VMS has a slight high frequency drop off. I haven't calculated what it would be in db, but a slight EQ might bring that up.
I have a signal generator that I set the output as close to 0.775 volts as I could. 0.775 volts is 0dbu, which is represented by the red line.
I then fed this into each of the 3 mixers and measured the output on the XLR outputs across the frequency spectrum from 60hz to 20khz.
The VMS testing was done using an analog channel, I'll do another measurement using a ripped test tone running through Virtual DJ, but I expect to see the same results. As long as the meter on the mixer says 0db, the output should be close to 0.775 volts... not 0.210 volts.
I have a signal generator that I set the output as close to 0.775 volts as I could. 0.775 volts is 0dbu, which is represented by the red line.
I then fed this into each of the 3 mixers and measured the output on the XLR outputs across the frequency spectrum from 60hz to 20khz.
The VMS testing was done using an analog channel, I'll do another measurement using a ripped test tone running through Virtual DJ, but I expect to see the same results. As long as the meter on the mixer says 0db, the output should be close to 0.775 volts... not 0.210 volts.
Thanks for the great graph. I knew we were dealing with a serious problem re the output level but that is a huge difference (.775 volts vs. .210 volts) I can't imagine how the design or test team at AA didn't get this fixed before all these units got shipped out. I for one will be seriously upset if they do not offer a suitable fix.
Having said that I still feel it to be a great tool and I feel pretty sure they are going to fix this for us.
Keeping my fingers crossed...
Having said that I still feel it to be a great tool and I feel pretty sure they are going to fix this for us.
Keeping my fingers crossed...
WHY HAVE I STILL NOT BEEN SENT MY ADAPTORS YET? LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE THEIRS. YOU HAVE MY DETAILS ...SO SORT IT PLEASE. THIS IS A JOKE!!!
quote:Originally posted by TulsaDJ:
The vertical is the voltage measured, the horizontal is frequency, so you can see the VMS has a slight high frequency drop off. I haven't calculated what it would be in db, but a slight EQ might bring that up.
I have a signal generator that I set the output as close to 0.775 volts as I could. 0.775 volts is 0dbu, which is represented by the red line.
I then fed this into each of the 3 mixers and measured the output on the XLR outputs across the frequency spectrum from 60hz to 20khz.
The VMS testing was done using an analog channel, I'll do another measurement using a ripped test tone running through Virtual DJ, but I expect to see the same results. As long as the meter on the mixer says 0db, the output should be close to 0.775 volts... not 0.210 volts.
Which analog channel did you use?
I bought mine last month and have not had any issue with it. I ordered adaptors from American Audio just in case something happens and received the adaptors yesterday. They were two American Audio Impedance Transformer 500Ω to 50Ω. I think AA is really doing much to listen to their customers complain.
quote:Originally posted by weephillie:
WHY HAVE I STILL NOT BEEN SENT MY ADAPTORS YET? LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE THEIRS. YOU HAVE MY DETAILS ...SO SORT IT PLEASE. THIS IS A JOKE!!!
you may want to either re-write your mail to the ADJ support, forward me your initial mail (freshfluke AT freshfluke DOT de) but definitely stop shouting.
Hey all,
I have to say I feel like I've taken enough abuse far more than I'm comfortable being quiet about.
I'm an engineer, this is my baby, and I guess by the nature of things there are far more pundits available to criticize what we're doing than there are experts who can fix it. I've personally overseen the circuit board revisions for fixing the issues. So yes this is happening and it's my job to make sure of this.
About the way customer service is or isn't responding, from what I know the phone is ringing all day non-stop. I could only imagine if you want to get into a philosophical argument about dB with them they probably won't take too kindly to this. This forum is a much better place for such discussions, and again I'm going to ask you keep it constructive and remember I am listening and am probably the best person to get your suggestions implemented into the actual product hardware.
Remember the VMS4 is about 1/2 the price of its nearest competitor for anything even remotely similar. It is a huge challenge to keep the price way down. But after I and a few others started blowing whistles and started talking about how we can and should be improving this, it is happening.
The output levels are low, which explains why the 0dB setting is lower. Yes standard line level audio is .775V = 0dB but the purpose of a meter is to warn you when the sound is close to distorting. So if on the other extreme you had a mixer that can handle an 8V RMS signal without distortion, setting 0dB=.775V is useless because you'd have to go to +20dB before even a hint of distortion.
On the new VMS4 the 0dB setting will be 4x as high, but again there is no point to calibrate it at .775dB because the purpose is to help you optimize the sound output by maximizing the sound without distortion.
I am a bit concerned about the high frequency volume rolloff; I'm going to our production facility this week and I'll work on ways to prevent this while still keeping the noise level reasonable.
I have to say I feel like I've taken enough abuse far more than I'm comfortable being quiet about.
I'm an engineer, this is my baby, and I guess by the nature of things there are far more pundits available to criticize what we're doing than there are experts who can fix it. I've personally overseen the circuit board revisions for fixing the issues. So yes this is happening and it's my job to make sure of this.
About the way customer service is or isn't responding, from what I know the phone is ringing all day non-stop. I could only imagine if you want to get into a philosophical argument about dB with them they probably won't take too kindly to this. This forum is a much better place for such discussions, and again I'm going to ask you keep it constructive and remember I am listening and am probably the best person to get your suggestions implemented into the actual product hardware.
Remember the VMS4 is about 1/2 the price of its nearest competitor for anything even remotely similar. It is a huge challenge to keep the price way down. But after I and a few others started blowing whistles and started talking about how we can and should be improving this, it is happening.
The output levels are low, which explains why the 0dB setting is lower. Yes standard line level audio is .775V = 0dB but the purpose of a meter is to warn you when the sound is close to distorting. So if on the other extreme you had a mixer that can handle an 8V RMS signal without distortion, setting 0dB=.775V is useless because you'd have to go to +20dB before even a hint of distortion.
On the new VMS4 the 0dB setting will be 4x as high, but again there is no point to calibrate it at .775dB because the purpose is to help you optimize the sound output by maximizing the sound without distortion.
I am a bit concerned about the high frequency volume rolloff; I'm going to our production facility this week and I'll work on ways to prevent this while still keeping the noise level reasonable.
Hi Emarx and all user,
I've just bought a new VMS4. It's an incredible gear and I believe all issues will be fixed soon.
Previosuly I had BCD2000 dj controller which was not stable. Behringer was aware about the problem. They decided to launch new Behringer BCD300 improved version of BCD2000 (customized for Traktor). Old users of BCD2000 have an option announced by Behringer: to exchange his old gear with BCD300 (unfortunately they must pay a difference).
Now after NAMM 2011 I can see VMS4 optimized for Traktor. Is is the same situation like with Behringer?
Or is it same VMS4 hardware with all it's problems?
I've just bought a new VMS4. It's an incredible gear and I believe all issues will be fixed soon.
Previosuly I had BCD2000 dj controller which was not stable. Behringer was aware about the problem. They decided to launch new Behringer BCD300 improved version of BCD2000 (customized for Traktor). Old users of BCD2000 have an option announced by Behringer: to exchange his old gear with BCD300 (unfortunately they must pay a difference).
Now after NAMM 2011 I can see VMS4 optimized for Traktor. Is is the same situation like with Behringer?
Or is it same VMS4 hardware with all it's problems?
The VMS4 Traktor version we showed at NAMM already had the increased master and headphone outputs as well as the fix for the microphone distortion. When it's introduced it will have these fixes plus much improved signal to noise characteristics.
quote:Originally posted by emarx:
The VMS4 Traktor version we showed at NAMM already had the increased master and headphone outputs as well as the fix for the microphone distortion. When it's introduced it will have these fixes plus much improved signal to noise characteristics.
Ok, so I will return back to shop my new VMS4 and I'll wait for VMS4 Traktor edition...
Emarx, will new Traktor Edition also have:
- better/ equal buttons LED illumination
- better EQ characteristic
- improved touchpad (faster, accurate)
??
Talking about not equal illumination:
quote:Originally posted by emarx:
When it's introduced it will have these fixes plus much improved signal to noise characteristics.
OK, so where do we (the owners of the 1st gen model) stand?
Can someone from ADJ please make an official statement.
Elliot
Elliot
I do appreciate how you must be feeling as it is very much your baby - the VMS4 is a cracking unit both to work on and at a very good price. In my posts I have been careful to be factual and in no way personal but as you can tell it has taken so long to get it resolved.
I do understand that once in the position of having a significant number of units in general use it becomes very difficult to provide retrospective solutions with these issues and you rally do have my sympathy - although I wonder how it made it through test trials without these issues being identified. I can't see it being hard to have a few trial/sample units that AA could have loaned to a variety of DJs local to their design centre who could have taken these out on the road or used in club for a couple of months prior to major production being signed off. I'm sure this would have thrown up these issues.
It would be interesting to know how many units have been sold and how many people have reported problems or requested mic transformers/power supplies. It may well be a relatively low number of people that are having problems, but it is difficult for those with the problems who are getting frustrated.
As I said above I loved using my VMS4 as it was well made, well laid out and a real quality feel when working on it - just a shame the unit has some minor issues to work round. Just hope its sorted soon.
Elliot
I do appreciate how you must be feeling as it is very much your baby - the VMS4 is a cracking unit both to work on and at a very good price. In my posts I have been careful to be factual and in no way personal but as you can tell it has taken so long to get it resolved.
I do understand that once in the position of having a significant number of units in general use it becomes very difficult to provide retrospective solutions with these issues and you rally do have my sympathy - although I wonder how it made it through test trials without these issues being identified. I can't see it being hard to have a few trial/sample units that AA could have loaned to a variety of DJs local to their design centre who could have taken these out on the road or used in club for a couple of months prior to major production being signed off. I'm sure this would have thrown up these issues.
It would be interesting to know how many units have been sold and how many people have reported problems or requested mic transformers/power supplies. It may well be a relatively low number of people that are having problems, but it is difficult for those with the problems who are getting frustrated.
As I said above I loved using my VMS4 as it was well made, well laid out and a real quality feel when working on it - just a shame the unit has some minor issues to work round. Just hope its sorted soon.
quote:Originally posted by shyha:
Emarx, will new Traktor Edition also have:
- better/ equal buttons LED illumination
- better EQ characteristic
- improved touchpad (faster, accurate)
??
and another question: when VMS4 Traktor Edition will be available?
quote:Originally posted by shyha:
when VMS4 Traktor Edition will be available?
Probably just after everyones one year warranty expires! :-)
@GroovinDJ: I get the sarcasm, but look...
There's already mic adapters to fix the distorted mics. The other issues are things we improved upon and are coming out with a new model with these fixes.
Look at the iPhone 4. The antenna doesn't work right if you hold it in a certain way. So does that mean Apple should just swap out your unit for free when the iPhone 5 comes out?
With the Innofader product, I've done a trade-in deal where DJs can simply trade-in an original Innofader for an Innofader Pro and pay the price difference plus a reasonable restocking fee. This is something I've offered, it's cool to make such offers, but expecting ADJ to offer free swaps on used product for every DJ...I don't think this is fair or reasonable. I'd say just resell your VMS4 when the new one comes out, and stop expecting ADJ to be Santa Claus.
@Derek: Fair enough for your toned down response. We did beta testing, yes had DJs take the unit out on the road, and made many software and hardware fixes based on the testing. Some noticed these issues but didn't find them severe enough to hold back the product.
To put this in perspective for every hundred or so VMS4s out there, maybe 1 customer calls in about the microphone distortion. With the DJs who tested it seemed just fine, and even though the levels were low and some noise seemed to be there, it worked fine wherever they tested.
I've been the one pushing for far more aggressive beta testing from the beginning, ADJ is coming around on this, so no need to convince me. It's not just a matter of getting DJs to try the product, but getting it in the hands of a variety of DJs in a variety of performance situations who will take a critical look at it. Also it's important to get QC testers, sales, and engineers look at the product because each one will find something different.
There's already mic adapters to fix the distorted mics. The other issues are things we improved upon and are coming out with a new model with these fixes.
Look at the iPhone 4. The antenna doesn't work right if you hold it in a certain way. So does that mean Apple should just swap out your unit for free when the iPhone 5 comes out?
With the Innofader product, I've done a trade-in deal where DJs can simply trade-in an original Innofader for an Innofader Pro and pay the price difference plus a reasonable restocking fee. This is something I've offered, it's cool to make such offers, but expecting ADJ to offer free swaps on used product for every DJ...I don't think this is fair or reasonable. I'd say just resell your VMS4 when the new one comes out, and stop expecting ADJ to be Santa Claus.
@Derek: Fair enough for your toned down response. We did beta testing, yes had DJs take the unit out on the road, and made many software and hardware fixes based on the testing. Some noticed these issues but didn't find them severe enough to hold back the product.
To put this in perspective for every hundred or so VMS4s out there, maybe 1 customer calls in about the microphone distortion. With the DJs who tested it seemed just fine, and even though the levels were low and some noise seemed to be there, it worked fine wherever they tested.
I've been the one pushing for far more aggressive beta testing from the beginning, ADJ is coming around on this, so no need to convince me. It's not just a matter of getting DJs to try the product, but getting it in the hands of a variety of DJs in a variety of performance situations who will take a critical look at it. Also it's important to get QC testers, sales, and engineers look at the product because each one will find something different.
Hi Emarx,
You didn't answer my questions
After returning back VMS4 I'm looking for VMS4 Traktor because I believie every defect has been fixed.
I would like to know is it worth to wait...
So I will repeat - does it have:
- better, equal buttons LED illumination
- better EQ characteristic (now it works like "kill", not smooth
- improved touchpad (faster, accurate)
?
You didn't answer my questions
After returning back VMS4 I'm looking for VMS4 Traktor because I believie every defect has been fixed.I would like to know is it worth to wait...
So I will repeat - does it have:
- better, equal buttons LED illumination
- better EQ characteristic (now it works like "kill", not smooth
- improved touchpad (faster, accurate)
?
@shyha:
1) some LEDs are red, some are blue, and some mixed. So if an LED lights up purple (both red and blue) it will be brighter than just red, for example.
2) For "better EQ characteristic" please be specific. If you mean more linear knobs, yes we are doing this.
3) No touchpad updates as far as I know.
1) some LEDs are red, some are blue, and some mixed. So if an LED lights up purple (both red and blue) it will be brighter than just red, for example.
2) For "better EQ characteristic" please be specific. If you mean more linear knobs, yes we are doing this.
3) No touchpad updates as far as I know.
quote:To put this in perspective for every hundred or so VMS4s out there, maybe 1 customer calls in about the microphone distortion. With the DJs who tested it seemed just fine, and even though the levels were low and some noise seemed to be there, it worked fine wherever they tested.
I find this VERY hard to believe. Granted, I just purchased my unit but I went to 4 different Guitar Center before I purchased mine and every single one of them had the microphone issue. If one out of 100 had the issue, certainly I would have found ONE that worked properly. Yes, I still purchased because the fix is easy... but I am not believing the 1 in a hundred statement for a second.
I am using mine with a Macbook Pro and it works well. Low headphone volume and a slow mouse track are my only other issues.
I would like to see American Audio offer a buyback/upgrade program to the new version. If not, it is possible that you may have a class action suit because the product can not be used without the fix.
Personally, I like this unit. I also got the hard case and it works great as well but the mic issue is a deal breaker for some and the low headphone audio... you just have to make it right.
On a side note... great phone service yesterday from Joel. My adapters are already on their way so says Ernie.
@djmm: You've misinterpreted what I said. All of the microphone circuits are the same so the variation depends on the setup. For example in a studio environment, the microphone use is relatively controlled so there is very rarely distortion, but for a mobile gig people will yell into the mic and the distortion is definitely noticeable. And every mic has different output, so some are much more likely than others to have distortion issues. It could also be that some customers found their own solutions and never called in.
For the slow mouse track, you can adjust your mouse settings in software. I've also worked on a version which just puts out a higher output but then there's also more noise so I'm not sure this is better.
Remember we're here to help you and you have your adapter coming. If you come on this forum looking for help, you're not going
@DJ Craig Mac: This issue is entirely from the hardware. The software updates are to fix other issues.
For the slow mouse track, you can adjust your mouse settings in software. I've also worked on a version which just puts out a higher output but then there's also more noise so I'm not sure this is better.
Remember we're here to help you and you have your adapter coming. If you come on this forum looking for help, you're not going
@DJ Craig Mac: This issue is entirely from the hardware. The software updates are to fix other issues.
quote:Originally posted by TulsaDJ:
I wish I had hooked this thing up to my main system earlier, I've had it since October, so I bet I can't return it. I hope once all these issues are resolved we can trade them in for a unit that might actually meet the printed specs.
My phone call to customer support was a joke, he didn't even acknowledge there was a problem.
I haven't had problems with headphone output, but have had the mic issue, and low output problem, as shown below. For now, my low audio and microphone audio fix will be accomplished by using a Behringer 1002, or Mackie 1402VLZ3
The following test was conducted yesterday by putting a .775v signal source into an analog channel of the VMS4.
Hey TulsaDJ,
Thanks for bringing this up. We did testing and got the dB dip on both the low end 20Hz and high end 20kHz reduced from about 1.2dB to 0.3dB. If we try to go flatter than this we'll run into other issues like power-up response on the 20Hz end and digital noise interference on the 20kHz end.
Also the level will be pulled way up with the increase in master output. The combination of the two will definitely improve the sound brightness.
Elliot,
Thank you for your response. Yes, I did take your post the wrong way but it is written in a very misleading way. If you re-read it, it is written to sound like one in a hundred have problems. The fact is, all units are faulty. Some just have found a way to make it work by not speaking so loud or not using as much gain. Bottom line, the mic section of the VMS4 is faulty. We can all agree on that.
Listen, I am absolutely not here to cause problems. I LOVE my VMS4! I think it is very high quality and is built like a tank. I put it into my hard case, which is also very high quality, and this thing will last me a long time.
I have no problems with low output. I only have low output on the headphones. And, that's not that bad.
Will I have to remove the microphone adapters each time I close up the unit or are they made so that they plug in and then are flexible?
Keep up the great work.
Scott
Thank you for your response. Yes, I did take your post the wrong way but it is written in a very misleading way. If you re-read it, it is written to sound like one in a hundred have problems. The fact is, all units are faulty. Some just have found a way to make it work by not speaking so loud or not using as much gain. Bottom line, the mic section of the VMS4 is faulty. We can all agree on that.
Listen, I am absolutely not here to cause problems. I LOVE my VMS4! I think it is very high quality and is built like a tank. I put it into my hard case, which is also very high quality, and this thing will last me a long time.
I have no problems with low output. I only have low output on the headphones. And, that's not that bad.
Will I have to remove the microphone adapters each time I close up the unit or are they made so that they plug in and then are flexible?
Keep up the great work.
Scott
quote:Originally posted by emarx:
@shyha:
1) some LEDs are red, some are blue, and some mixed. So if an LED lights up purple (both red and blue) it will be brighter than just red, for example.
2) For "better EQ characteristic" please be specific. If you mean more linear knobs, yes we are doing this.
3) No touchpad updates as far as I know.
Ok, clear for me. I hope Traktor Version will be released soon...or maybe improved standard VMS4 version. I would like to buy it ASAP.
Of course I can be your beta tester!
elliot, thank you for your postings!
i rarely see a company of this size where developers are so close with the user base like here. since i'm a user too, i really appreciate that!
and on a side note: i love my vms. absolutely. i've been waiting for an analog/midi hybrid soooo many years and whenever i'm spinning with it, i'm just happy having it. my traktor controls are simply where i need them: on the mixer. and i still can use my beloved timecode.
p.s.: any plans to make it a little bit lighter? i love the rubber corners and i love that it's made from metal, but my complete gear i take to a gig is now at 20kg on my back... :-/ is it possible to reduce the plates thickness about one or two milimeters?
i rarely see a company of this size where developers are so close with the user base like here. since i'm a user too, i really appreciate that!
and on a side note: i love my vms. absolutely. i've been waiting for an analog/midi hybrid soooo many years and whenever i'm spinning with it, i'm just happy having it. my traktor controls are simply where i need them: on the mixer. and i still can use my beloved timecode.
p.s.: any plans to make it a little bit lighter? i love the rubber corners and i love that it's made from metal, but my complete gear i take to a gig is now at 20kg on my back... :-/ is it possible to reduce the plates thickness about one or two milimeters?