PocketScan Custom Gobo Wheel

Really cool. Really.

This is a fantastic example of thinking outside the box, customizing features far beyond a typical modification. I look forward to seeing future shots.

Thanks, Chris!

I'll tackle the DJ Scan RGs next...

Of course, you do realize you have voided your warranty, right?

Chances are, if you're doing these kind of modifications, you're not worried about the warranty because you could probably do most repairs on your own anyways.

I think the most important thing to see is that these fixtures can be modified to match needed applications. We're not stuck with what the maker provides for us.

Also the mighty scans are so old and also discontinued that I personally wouldn't worry about a warranty.
Sincerely,

But, I must say that their construction is rock-solid. Aside from the annoying red loc-tite rubbery stuff used on most of the connectors (and magnets, and lens mount, etc.), this was a VERY easy device to "hack"... no weird screw types or unrealistically fragile pieces.

I'd like to see other folks try to figure out ways to make these cool little devices work better/smarter... like maybe better light output using LEDs in the same lamp footprint, or leveraging one of the un-needed channels (like the laser) and figure out a way to incorporate dimming (even if it was via an external dimmer)...

Yeah, they just don't make them like they used to, eh?

Rock solid, durable, easy to manaage and maintain.

With LED being the big push right now, maybe there might be a Mighty LED Scan on the horizon?

Just curious... why didn't you just use a projecor to make the effect happen behind the contestants?

I do think it is SUPER cool that you made your own custom gobo wheel for your fixtures.

If you had a set of mighty scans, you could seriously have 20 possible letters to spell out a word.

A couple of reasons for not using one or more projectors for the letters...

- I will already be using video projectors behind scrim for a couple of scenes.
- Projectors that can "cut through" the brightness of the other stage lights would be in excess of 10k lumens, and those projectors are VERY expensive.
- The stage is fairly "deep" and if I did projections behind the actors, a lot of it might get missed. Whereas if I project on the proscenium and front stage areas, the whole audience can see it.

Mighty Scans would have been great, but they are more expensive, harder to come by, and I already own several PocketScans and am familiar with their quirks.

Thanks for the kudos, though, everyone. The newest version of the wheel should be here any day, and I will take and post pics.

- Sean

You can use weaker projectors to get through stage light, just depends on how you are using it.


This is a shot of a show I did a few years ago now. Front light is 6 Colortran Lekos lamped with 1000w FELs and gelled R16 in this shot. Over head is some S4 Pars gelled R80 and some Par 64s for effect. The projector is a little 3k Sanyo. The key with this, keeping light bleed under control and the fact that the projector surface is hanging so light bounce doesn't catch it and run up it.



Now this is a shot of another show, and you can see what happens when you you shot on a surface that goes to the floor and catches more stage bounce. (Sorry for the bad photo, ripped off a bad video of it). This is lit with 8 S4 Lekos lamped 750w extended life, 4 gelled R80 and 4 R33. Overhead is 8 S4 Pars with R80 and 8 with R21. The cyc is 4 Altman Econo Cycs lamped 1500w with R125 running at about 40%. Sorry, for get the exact values of everything else, though front it probably something like R80 at 100% and R33 at around 66%. Anyway, the projector here is a Christie 10k with 1.2 lens. As you can see, it has a hard time keeping up do to larger fill area and that cyc catches all the light and reflects it.



So it is possible to use lower powered projectors, you just have to plan it out ahead and realize what you are getting into.

And to SerraAva's point, that's EXACTLY how I was going to handle the upstage scrim projectors. They will be two 3.5k projectors, used in rear-projector mode with as much floor bounce and bleed-over masked off of them as possible.

We DO have a 10k front projector, but again, to SerraAva's point, it's designed for a full-stage projection of movies on a screen, which would be impractical for what I want to do in Spelling Bee with the letters. We tried to use it for other shows, much as what SerraAva has shown in the lower picture, but you do have to be VERY disciplined about bounce light and light bleed, particularly from strips or other washes.

So, I come back to using the PocketScans with the custom gobo wheels and augmenting them with the brighter non-ADJ intels that the theatre owns (which use 22mm standard gobos).

Oh, and to guess on the shows you posted pictures of, SerraAva, the upper is ...Lapine Agile and the lower one is either Titanic or Ragtime?

Well, the top is easy do to the picture. Nice call on the bottom, Ragtime. Both were great fun. Its a shame I don't get to do theatre that much anymore.

The top one was tricky if one didn't know their theatre, but, yeah, the painting does help. For me, it was the "Special Guest" DC. Great show. I saw it at the Geffen Playhouse in the 90's when Steve and the director were working on the script.

I know this thread is a bit stale, but I am hoping that the original poster, Sean Harrington (aka 1Stage) is subscribed and will reply. There doesn't seem to be a way to send a private message.

It is great to read about your work with the custom gobo wheel. I am designing for a small stage show where I am working hard to keep weight down. The PocketScans or the other small fixtures are great in many ways. But like you, I need my own gobos. Not necessarily custom, but definitely not the DJ ones.

I am curious to know more about how well the Shapeways sintered approach worked. Were the edges of the image crisp? Did they hold up well? The link to the model on Shapeways is no longer valid, and even a search for a gobo wheel turned up nothing. I did find some individual gobos... they were only $17. Not bad for a custom gobo.

Since you had to do all that work to get the new gobo wheel up to task, I wonder if it might be easier to modify the existing gobo wheel. If each of the gobos were cut out, that would allow for a new gobo to be attached above the hole.

To mount new gobos, the only thing I can think of is to drill and tap holes for some screws that will be used to trap the new gobos in place.

Any opinions about if this is a viable idea? I have never handled these particular fixtures, so I don't know if there is even any extra room for the added thickness.

Joe Dunfee

After a lot of searching, I did eventually stumble on 1Stage's gobo design on Shapeways.com. I don't know why they original link didn't work. But, here is the one that works now. By the way, it was priced at $77 USD.
http://www.shapeways.com/model..._a___pocketscan.html

Joe Dunfee

Hey Joe,

Well, here's the short answer. The custom gobo wheel for the PocketScan that I made won't work due to the fact that it's made from stainless steel, which interferes with the magnetic sensor ADJ uses to position both the color and gobo wheels.

If I had more time/smarts in relationship to electronics, I might be able to find a way to adjust the magnetic sensor to work properly, but I'm not that advanced.

Now, for the long answer...

The process, while REALLY expensive, and impractical due to the magnetic qualities of the material, worked like a charm in every other aspect. The $77 you saw was the net cost of the material (~US$12 a CC), and most of that is from the metal retaining sprue I had to use to allow the process to print the gobo wheel thinly enough to use in the PocketScan. By itself, the wheel was only about $35. Shapeways has no plans currently to offer any non-magnetic high-temperature materials that would work.

As to the detail level, it was REALLY good, considering the edges can be as rough as about 100dpi in some cases. With the dimness of the 150 watt bulb in the PocketScan, it really wasn't a problem, and when I rigged the gobo manually (to override the magnetic sensor problem), with the manual focus, it looked great on all of the custom patterns I used.

The $17 gobos you see have been used in 575 watt Robe intels, and they have only mild discoloration (like any metal gobo would), but they have ZERO melting, oxidation, or deterioration. It was these gobos that I finally used rather than the PocketScan approach, unfortunately.

So, why not just find a laser cutter who can do brass at the appropriate thickness? I couldn't find one here in Los Angeles who would take the job, honestly. I tried laser and water jet cutters from Chatsworth to Garden Grove, and no one wanted to be bothered with a small (unit size and project budget) job.

I like your idea of being able to mount custom gobos in the PocketScan, but they are REALLY small, like only about 12.5mm maximum image diameter, as opposed to the smallest production gobos, which are about twice that size at around 22mm. And the tolerances between the gobo wheel and the gel wheel are less than 1/8", so there's not room for a retaining ring or set screws. Good idea, just not practical.

And the gobo wheel is moderately difficult to get to. It takes the removal of most of the screws on the fixture, detachment of the main analog/logic board, and some clever maneuvering of the cables. It is doable once or twice for a REALLY important project, but I wouldn't want to do it more than three times. Don't get me wrong, the units are ROCK SOLID. ADJ manufactured them like little battleships, but it's TEDIOUS!

I'd ALWAYS love to talk more about it. Anyone who has read this far into the thread is always welcome to email me directly at sph@1stage.com.

- Sean Harrington

I am guessing the metal on the original gobo wheel is aluminum. How thin is it?

Sign makers have CO2 lasers that cut plastic. They are used to small one-off jobs. ... I just did a bit of research, and the lasers used in sign shops are not the right wavelength for metal cutting. It takes a YAG laser, and that is not used in the sign-maker's world.

I did come across one laser shop that says they will do a minimum order of $75. http://www.iowalaser.com

Of course, the old standard method of cutting thin metal for gobos is metal etching. But, I am sure this technique would not work on metal thick enough to form the wheel. However, I wonder if it is possible to make a thicker hub, and then bond the etched gobo metal to it with high temperature epoxy. The problem that immediately comes to mind is the mounting of the magnet I am not certain of the location, but it seems to be towards the outer portion where the thin metal would be.

Still, as I write the above, it just doesn't feel practical. In my case, I am not expecting to change out the gobos but the one time. The weight of the models that don't use stamped gobo wheels is my main concern. I was told they start at around 25 Lbs.

The model I was looking at is the X-Move, because it is dimable. I wonder if that model has any more space to play with than the pocket scan? Images of the gobo wheel replacement part from American DJ seem to have a collar on the hub. This might imply some additional space for screws to hold gobos.

Joe Dunfee

Joe Dunfee

Joe, you'd have to get ahold of one of the gobo wheels from the X-Move and take a set of calipers to it, then model it in a 3D program. Google SketchUp is free and very easy to learn, and I model all of my gobos in it before sending them to Shapeways.

With the X-Move, they might not use magnetic positioning anymore, so the 3D printing process MIGHT work for you.

Etching was not an option, because at the thickness required for this gobo (the PocketScan one), the etching acid actually starts eating into the side of the metal, degrading the clarity and sharpness of the lines on the gobo pattern.

- Sean

Hey Joe,

I just found the X-Move gobo wheel part. There appears to be some sort of an index point on it, but I can't tell if it's a mechanical switch or if it's a magnetic switch.

Either way, I'd be happy to help you design this and help get it printed. It looks like the X-Move is the "modern" equivalent to the PocketScan, and although I've not had a chance to see one up close, it looks like these are more readily disassemblable (is that a word?).

Let me know if I can help.

I'm looking for logical replacements for the PocketScans, and while the X-Move is a bit more expensive than what I'm interested in spending, it's about 1/10 of what a comparable "professional" intel costs.

- Sean

I just came across an E-bay seller that does custom gobo wheels!

[link removed by jingles as it is a violation of our forum rules which can be found at the very top of each forum section]

I I suspect this is for one of their LED moving head knockoffs. But, perhaps it is compatible with the AMDJ one.

Also, it looks to just be a flat piece of metal, presumably laser cut. This would mean that it would not be too difficult to get one made here in the U.S. But, I still have no idea if any of the U.S. made fixtures have this simple of a gobo wheel.

Joe Dunfee

Joe. I removed your link as it is against our forum rules to post too outside sites unless asked by a admin or mod. However if any customers are interested in your link they may post a reply and request to contact you about this off the ADJ forums.
Thanks.
Sincerely,

Sorry about the link.

I did get more information about the service in China. They are only stating their gobo wheel is compatible with their own fixture. Also, they emphasize that it takes a lot of patience to do the swap-out and to get the gobo wheel properly indexed again with the belt.

Their $15 custom wheel is made by choosing from their existing library of gobos. They will do a totally custom wheel for $150. They call this "very expensive", but it is actually quite cheap.

But, it is still to be settled if any of the small fixtures by AMDJ use a simple flat metal gobo wheel, which is what I think makes it practical to do a custom wheel. If so, it should not be difficult to measure the diameter, hub mounting holes, and other parameters.

quote:

Originally posted by cadcoke5:
Sorry about the link.

I did get more information about the service in China. They are only stating their gobo wheel is compatible with their own fixture. Also, they emphasize that it takes a lot of patience to do the swap-out and to get the gobo wheel properly indexed again with the belt.

Their $15 custom wheel is made by choosing from their existing library of gobos. They will do a totally custom wheel for $150. They call this "very expensive", but it is actually quite cheap.

But, it is still to be settled if any of the small fixtures by AMDJ use a simple flat metal gobo wheel, which is what I think makes it practical to do a custom wheel. If so, it should not be difficult to measure the diameter, hub mounting holes, and other parameters.

Oops, tried to email him and get the address for the gobos for my Vizi Led. Some how I reposted his message.

I can't figure out how to view any private messages, or how to send one. Anyway, you can E-mail me at cadcoke5@yahoo.com.

Joe Dunfee

I just got a quote for a blank gobo wheel. The idea is that this will will then be able to accept stock individual gobos that get screwed onto the wheel.

My preliminary design was just numbers I made up. It was a flat disk of .030" aluminum. The wheel is 6"dia, with 10 holes 1" dia, and about 33 holes .1" dia., intended as pilot holes for self tapping screws.

It was $35 for two ($35 being their minimum order) and $45 for four of them.

I don't have current plans for ordering any, as I don't have any scanners that take a pre-punched gobo wheel. I may in the future, but want to confirm that a plain disk will be able to work.

The company is;
Cleon Martin
Laserfab, Inc.
Lebanon, PA

Joe Dunfee
phone: 717-272-0060

you'll need to know the gobo diameter and image diameter for the gobo's in the pocket scan. There is a lot that could go wrong with this. That's all I'll say.

I just purchased a used MinSpot, really for the purpose of evaluating if it was viable for me to use at all. It seems similar in capabilities to the X-move. There don't seem to be many used X-moves around. I think they were a more recent release, so there are more MinSpots in the market.

The reason I went with the MinSpot was that I thought it had gobo spin. That suggested that there might be something that can be unscrewed from the gobo wheel. However, it has no such effect. When I re-read the literature, it said "Gobo Wheel spin effect"... the WHEEL can be set to continuously rotate.

I do like the form factor of these little fixtures. But, those gobo wheels are tiny. The Minspot uses a magnet for indexing, but otherwise looks like a flat piece of metal screwed to a hub. My MinSpot has a few stripped hex-drive screws, so I can't get it apart enough to see.

I did try one experiment. Since there is some flat space in front of the aperture, I thought I might just put a gobo there. The gobo wheel would just be set at the large spot, and I would have to give up the ability to change gobos during a show. But, it actually looks like it would be easy to modify it to accept a pattern holder of sorts. But, there was one drawback. I could not get it to focus on the new gobo position. To make it work, I had to hold the "nose" and its lens about 1/2" away from the unit. But, it may still be practical by just purchasing a few 1/2" long standoff's. There isn't even a lot of light leak in the gap, and it looks like it would still clear the rest of the unit through all its range of motion.

If you are willing to risk putting the gobo wheel itself at risk, the plastic housing just in front of the gobo wheel could be slit to allow the pattern holder to go there. But, you risk damaging the wheel if you slide against it.

So, I think this is one solution for the DJ who just wants to put up a birthday or wedding gobo. It may even be possible to find a middle-ground in terms of range of focus, so that the light can modified for the pattern holder, and then simply remove the pattern holder and refocus for regular dance light usage.

I just looked at a X-move Youtube video, showing the insides. I see that there is a circuit board covering the area where you might have made a slot to accept a pattern holder. It may just be possible to re-drill holes to allow the circuit board to be moved 1/4" or so towards the output lens and allow a custom gobo to be inserted. But, I doubt it.

For my own project, it is my own personal project, and doesn't have a due date. But, now I do see how I would proceed if I want to make use of these small units.

Joe Dunfee