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What's going on with the VMS4 output?

I've just been running in analog mode to check both my mic channels and all four line inputs for distortion, and noticed something.

Having set my channel gain and master output level to read 0dB max, I turned up the EQs.

Now what should happen is that the master output reading on the VU should increase as each EQ band is turned up.

There is +6dB of boost on each band, so with all three up there should be a significant increase showing on the VU.

But there is NO INCREASE WHATSOEVER. Instead all that happens is that the audio becomes compressed and distorted.

Perhaps this is why so many are complaining about distortion. They are boosting EQ and part of the VMS4 internal circuitry is saturating.

So I'm wondering now, exactly what is going on internally?

(later) I've also just noticed that there is a lot of bleed into the main output from the cue signal, when the cues are pressed with a signal playing.

This is audible even when the master output is at zero.

Finally, my channel two input bleeds through to the output even with the fader at zero and no cue pressed.
Last edited {1}
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damn dude , do you ever stop complaining???

i think you shuld just return the unit and go get yourself something else as i see all your posts and every one of them you are slammin this unit for something or other??
i mean wtf?? it obvioously is NOT your cup of tea, so if it doesnt work for YOU then just take it back get somthing else and STFU!!!!
Excuse me, but when I buy something for £400 ($623 US) I expect it to work properly!

Do you think I should just sit back and say nothing?

Read the forum - there are LOTS of people complaining about all sorts of stuff. Some have even given up and sent theirs back already.

I'm a patient man, and I'm prepared to work with AA and get to the bottom of any teething problems.

If we don't speak up, AA will not know about the issues.
And why shouldn't we complain? If we don't then these issues do not get addressed.

Also if we just return - where's the evidence for the return taken and do AA ever get to hear why?

Also by highlighting issues here - not just through support - you can gauge how big a problem there really is.

And finally, the issue may be solved by another user of the forum - that's what they are for.

Roy
yeah, i get it, but damn its just that you two guys are the ones complaining the most all over this forum!!
im just tired of seeing all the negative posts from you two.
just give me the issues and keep the shitty comments to yourselves!!
what are you guys, "best mates" or what??
im all for knowing about the problems and getting the issues corrected, but i just dont see the point in slamming the forums?
you know the guys at AA are in a different time zone? right?
you know they are most likely NOT gonna get issue solved instantly for you right??
you know that they gotta test/retest/then get the software guys from another company (VDJ) to fix it right??
..Just get on the phone with a customer service rep and get it handled is all im saying....
quote:
Originally posted by Tha'MIXican:
yeah, i get it, but damn its just that you two guys are the ones complaining the most all over this forum!!
im just tired of seeing all the negative posts from you two.
just give me the issues and keep the shitty comments to yourselves!!
what are you guys, "best mates" or what??
im all for knowing about the problems and getting the issues corrected, but i just dont see the point in slamming the forums?
you know the guys at AA are in a different time zone? right?
you know they are most likely NOT gonna get issue solved instantly for you right??
you know that they gotta test/retest/then get the software guys from another company (VDJ) to fix it right??
..Just get on the phone with a customer service rep and get it handled is all im saying....
AA im sure will keep a log of problems of people calling in all the same, right??
quote:
Originally posted by GroovinDJ:
OK, you deal with the issues your way and we'll deal with it ours.

Phone calls shouldn't be necessary in this day and age. Almost everyone has access to a computer, email and forums - and public discussion is BIG.

Have you heard of Facebook, Twitter...?

United we stand, divided we fall and all that jazz.


well thats just it, i take my issues up with AA on the PHONE directly...immediately!!
why am i gonna my waste time typing up a NOVEL of my VMS4 problems??
they probably wont understand what the hell im writing anyways. every BIG dj company out there i know of has a "customer service department" people, USE IT!!

and again with the "attitude"...(yes, ive heard of FB/Twitter...) have you heard of making phones calls to other human beings, its actually quite productive!!
Something you seem to be missing is that discussing the issues here does several things.

It puts them into the public eye, so that anyone visiting the forum can instantly see how many others have got the same issues.

It also makes a permanent written record that can be referred to by either other customers or AA themselves.

Phone calls don't do that.
quote:
Originally posted by Tha'MIXican:
quote:
Originally posted by GroovinDJ:
Something you seem to be missing is that discussing the issues here does several things.

It puts them into the public eye, so that anyone visiting the forum can instantly see how many others have got the same issues.

It also makes a permanent written record that can be referred to by either other customers or AA themselves.

Phone calls don't do that.


ive worked at a customer service dept. at huge dj supply company and EVERY call that comes in to customer service department, good or bad, is RECORDED, we would then run the recording thru a voice to text software and then forward this in an email to their respective company support center so they could work on the issues -
YOU complain on this forum that nothing is getting done, sit there at your PC and type up a paperback novel of your problems and then get upset when its not handled by the AA guys ASAP...all im saying is if you want "immediate satisfaction",(and who doesn't), call cutomer service to get your issues RESOLVED...
All of our tech support departments PREFER and most times will only use phone calls. If your expecting tech support to fully watch the forums well we are not we are usually busy taking phone calls our preferred method. It is also perfectly clear that these forums are not for actualy tech support from AA/ADJ. This is more of a community for other dj's to post and talk about stuff to help each other out.
So if you came here expecting tech support to be all over your issue 5 minutes after you posted it then I am afraid you have the wrong impression of how this forum works and operates.
Sincerely,
quote:
Originally posted by Tha'MIXican:
YOU complain on this forum that nothing is getting done

I think not. Please point me to where I said that.

quote:
Originally posted by Tha'MIXican:
then get upset when its not handled by the AA guys ASAP

Wrong again. Where have I said that I'm upset?

Please don't make things up.

If you want to spend money on phone calls, suit yourself - but don't expect everyone else to have your POV.
Guys there is definately is a problem with some/all of the first units.

As you know I sent mine back (and lost money doing so), so yesterday I went to a place in Barcelona and tested two more units - EXACTLY the same issue, leaking channels and low output, the engineers in the shop compared the unit to almost all the current DJ equipment in this price range.

Now whether we chose to phone America or to write in a public user forum is OUR choice.

I for one think its a great idea to let prospective users see there is a problem, rather than let ADJ/AA bury it inside their protective shell they call a call center.

It seems Mr Mixican it's you who have an attitude problem, people buying modern electronic equipment expect it to work as advertised, they are allowed by law in almost every country to say how they feel about receiving equipment not performing as it should.

New users can read these forums, see that there is a problem, can see that it's not just them thats having the problem, and hopefully see that ADJ are working on a fix.

However some of these problems it seems should have been removed at the design stage.

I'd like to get another one and replace most of the electronics with better quality components to see if it's down to poor component selection (easily fixed) or if it's down to a bad design (not easily fixed).

Hopefully the ADJ guys are doing just that now .. or I would expect them to be doing this as part of the quality control.
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:
All of our tech support departments PREFER and most times will only use phone calls.


Then can we have a UK support number please? Even if it just re-directs to the english speaking dutch number.

I refuse to pay international call charges for support. Not just for your products but for any products from any company.

Also, placing priority on phone calls means your technicians repeating the answer to common problems time and time again. If the question was asked and answered here it would free up your technicians for those ore in depths and tricky problems.

You've embraced the world of digital DJing, I think it's about time you embraced the internet properly too...

Cheers,

Roy
@GroovinDJ: I designed the VMS4 firmware and did not put compression or limiting on the audio circuitry. Typically the EQ and Master knobs will be somewhere near the middle and the faders will be about 2/3 from the top to produce the best sound quality. There will be some variation depending on how strong or weak the original audio sources are.

If you run all 3 EQs up +6dB what that means is the overall sound would get boosted by +6dB not by +18dB. So depending on the music this change may not be so visible in the VU meters. But once you start reaching the output limits you will hear distortion.

The meter readings will be as follows:
Master (not booth) if no cues are pressed
Pre-master cue if one or more cues are pressed.

So if you are using the booth output watch out with the adjustments because you may be reading master but listening to booth. The master and booth gain are identical so if you are using both, ideally you should set up the system amps so both have the same VMS4 settings.

I'm not sure where the crosstalk is coming from frankly. When I test my unit with the entire VMS4 cranked to the max and cueing a signal, I get nothing on the master. Same with Channel 2 set to zero. The only thing I can think of is if you are not using MIDILOG2 or MIDILOG3 analog inputs, set them for line level. If they are set to phono level, crosstalk noise of -90dB gets boosted by the phono pre-amp to perhaps -60dB or so which could become slightly audible through the channel.
I will post that number when I can get it. However I know it is in one of these older posts from brianADJ. We do not have enough techs watching the forums to be able to properly offer "good" support on the Internet. I'm a lighting mod and I do the best I can. Hartmut and ihearyou have recently joined up as mods for audio. So time will tell if the forums will become a proper venue for support. But in the meantime phone calls is the way to go. Also on the ADJ US site we do have a list of numbers you can call if your not in the US. Take a look around.
Sincerely,
@ groovindj: what do you think about having personal support? since you are located in the UK we can have one of our sales guys come over in order to help you in person.

@ Jackpot Slot machine: unfortunately we can't offer this service for you in spain.
So please klick on my username and contact me with all your problems!
BTW: your statement: "guys, ther is a definately problem with all first units" is WRONG!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Tha'MIXican:
damn dude , do you ever stop complaining???

i think you shuld just return the unit and go get yourself something else as i see all your posts and every one of them you are slammin this unit for something or other??
i mean wtf?? it obvioously is NOT your cup of tea, so if it doesnt work for YOU then just take it back get somthing else and STFU!!!!


Mine just got returned, but I think with a bit of tweaking it will/would be an awesome bit of kit.

If your running VDJ LE Mac or PC there is no problem now is there?
I had mine up and running in the store this way it worked awesome. But it won't run on VDJ with 4 decks though. I think Traktor is better programme so I think that's where the problems start from. For what you paid for it there are good work around's.
quote:
Originally posted by HartmutADJEU:
@ groovindj: what do you think about having personal support? since you are located in the UK we can have one of our sales guys come over in order to help you in person.

@ Jackpot Slot machine: unfortunately we can't offer this service for you in spain.
So please klick on my username and contact me with all your problems!
BTW: your statement: "guys, ther is a definately problem with all first units" is WRONG!!!



Harmut ?

What service are you on about ? Are you answering someone elses post ? Have I asked for something and didn't realise ?

And when you quote someone get it right, I said

SOME/ALL have a problem. Not as you said ALL.

And to say the statement is WRONG, are you denying that there are problems with the unit ? Are you insane ? There are some quite critical problems with the first units ranging from Build quality, missing components, features not working correctly (or even at all). Major headaches with getting the unit to work on 4 decks as advertised .. and of course the reason I sent mine back, leaking cue/mix channels

I'd say they were problems
quote:
Originally posted by Jackpot Slot Machine (JSM):
quote:
Originally posted by HartmutADJEU:
@ groovindj: what do you think about having personal support? since you are located in the UK we can have one of our sales guys come over in order to help you in person.

@ Jackpot Slot machine: unfortunately we can't offer this service for you in spain.
So please klick on my username and contact me with all your problems!
BTW: your statement: "guys, ther is a definately problem with all first units" is WRONG!!!



Harmut ?

What service are you on about ? Are you answering someone elses post ? Have I asked for something and didn't realise ?

And when you quote someone get it right, I said

SOME/ALL have a problem. Not as you said ALL.

And to say the statement is WRONG, are you denying that there are problems with the unit ? Are you insane ? There are some quite critical problems with the first units ranging from Build quality, missing components, features not working correctly (or even at all). Major headaches with getting the unit to work on 4 decks as advertised .. and of course the reason I sent mine back, leaking cue/mix channels

I'd say they were problems


you are dramatising BIG TIME!!!
just stop spamming with your over simplifing statements..
- you have a problem with your VMS4? name it!
- you don't have a VMS4 and are trolling around the forum... get lost...
- you want to participate in the forum and help other users, like you do in some other posts, you are allways welcome.
Hello i like this thred cause i have never mixed on a mixer like this. iam having the same problems as the original post stated. And im really kinda frustrated and mad that a company would blow up this peice of equipment and not even THOROUGHLY test this peice of <edit> they over charged for it <edit>. especially for how complicated the inside must be with all ITS SUPOSE TO DO and for the 525 i paid i would like it to work like a professinol peice of equipment and not just some toy. WAY TO GO ADJ
I hope they can fix this im glad i bought a 2 year warenty
Last edited by djstevieray
EVENT HORIZON,
Please be patient, AA is trying to make things right. I am a product tester, and alot of what people are experiencing did not happen with the prototype I have. I have a production unit on the way, so I should be able to help with some of these issues very soon. I understand your anger, but blease refrain from the swear words. I have the rules posted in a sticky on all sections of the forum, and the rules have been in place since I wrote them almost 5 years ago. I try my best to tolerate, but I do enforce the rules. Thank you for understanding, and hopefully we can turn your experience into a great one.
quote:
Originally posted by GroovinDJ:
My understanding is that there were some physical changes made internally to the VMS4, between the original 'Traktor' version and what we all have now (the VDJ version).

It's a shame that this happened, as it seems that the early units (Velocity ones?) were better.

sorry to say, but that's not true... the version with the velocity printing on it was simply one of the first samples available... at this point of time the naming was still in discussion. of course, internal changes have been made, since this has been one of the first samples, but this has nothing to do with a traktor or a vdj version.. just being the regular process from the first sample to the final unit...
putting it in the context of the rumor you heard, it's right - you said, the velocoty version was better, which is not true Wink there was no "original traktor version" and now there is the "un-original vdj version".
changes have been made in order to improve the unit.

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