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12 replies

UV Yet again. Large room advisory

G Guest
OK, I know I asked a ton of stuff about a UV application, now I have another one that is fortunately not as complicated, yet complicated in it's own way.

In this application, I need to cover a large area. I'm not worried about things like consistent, even or even total coverage. What I am looking for is a cost effective, durable method of covering a relatively large area. I found out the room this will be in seats 600 in the maximum configuration(I use up about 40 seats for my FOH position). Then they open it up for maybe 300 more(removing a wall).

In this application, I want a relatively quick start time, so unless it takes it 5 minutes to warm up to work, it should be fine. I don't care about DMX control, but it would be a nice thing I'd pay extra for, but I do have dimmers if I ever need to go that route.

I also want to cover the stage a bit, and I do currently have a 64 LED UV fixutre.

The main things I want to address are the following:
Covering a big area, but doesn't have to be the whole room. I don't think that's possible. I do have to light from the stage is the only restriction, but I can also put it on my trees, which each have 4 64 LED Pros on it, so I can clamp it to an LTS-2 with an o-clamp if need be.

Ravers apparently don't want lots of light, which is fine. I want SOME light on stage for safety of the dancers brought up there(under control and selection by the MC). The Mega Bar 50's I have will aimed super low and in a solid dark color just to help with seeing the floor and stuff like that. My Mega Panels will be behind the dancers but in front of the DJ table and blasting through the stage dancers and into the room. The MC likes ot point my 64 LED Pros into the room, which he does with my permission. The Mega Panels and the 64 LED Pros just run sound active all night at 100% and the crowd seems to love it. But they like UV too, so I want to give more than what I can do with a single 64 UV LED.

Money is an issue, but it's not a major one. I got some money to spend. I prefer Elation and ADJ products only. I do want to keep it on the affordable siide though since these are lights I'll only use twice a year for sure, maybe 3 times.

What is the coverage of a UV cannon 12 feet above the main floor and aimed across the venue?
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FM Former Member
If looking for instant or fairly quick turn on, don't go with the UV Cannon. It uses a mercury vapor lamp I believe and it will have a warm up time. Also, the colder the fixture is, the longer it will take to warm up (something to keep in mind with mercury vapor).

I would go with the UV Panel or the UV Wash. The UV wash is basically a more compact UV Panel, but as you can see packs more punch for the size at 100w vs 160w. The florescents in these are basically instant on (unless they are very cold). They won't be as powerful as the UV Cannon however since a) mercury vapor is a better UV source and b) less wattage obviously. They are also a fairly wide angle as well.

The only thing I should warn you about with the UV Panel and UV Wash is the lamps are fragile and it is common for them to break when being shipped and/or transported. Get a back up lamp or two to be safe and also make sure to check the lamps right out of the box. I have ordered UV Washes that had broken lamps in the styrofoam they ship in right out of the box.
S Studio42 (Guest)
How long of a warm-up time would I be looking at for a mercury vapor lamp? The reason warm-up time is an issue is that after the band is being cleared out, and all the stage is being reset in commando/ninja fashion, chances are the last thing I'll want to do is turn on the fixtures. So unless the UV Cannons lamps are taking forever and a day, that could be an issue. Otherwise, I think I might be OK. I'd say if the warm-up time is around 5 minutes, that's fine.

But, with the UV Wash being a 100-watt draw item, I think that would be a decent option. Definately get at least 2 of these. I can't see needing more because of how I would be mounting them. Cold is a POSSIBLE issue, but not a killer. Instant on isn't a real issue. Since the rave is indoors, and even though by Sacramento standards it was cold last weekend, the lights will have been inside for several hours and more than sufficient time to warm up to a comfortable temperature. But good to know about the time.

These lights are definately NOT suitable for my big show application where having control is a major requirement. In the situation I'm looking at, I don't need all the control issues. This one is a set and forget application.

I think I should get a case or two for these if I go this route. At the MSRP, the UV wash is definately an affordable item, enough to get more than 1. They are also small enough where they ain't gonna take up a whole lot of space being stored either.

WORSE case is that if I want more impact, I can bring other stands and place them around other locations, plug in and ignore them for the rest of the event.

Just more to add to the list of things to get:
16 new LED cans
Drum shield
2 guitar shields
Now these.

Gonna be a fun year!!

Thanks. I know what to aim for now. I got until September to order 2 of these and 4 spare bulbs. Hey, better safe than screwed!
FM Former Member
Depending on temperature (normal room for example), mercury vapor will take about 30s to a minute to warm up to full depending on age. It might even be faster with that particular lamp. Basically picture a street light when they first turn on. Those are all normally mercury vapor lamps. With cold, warm up time increases exponentially, especially below say 40-50F degrees.

Control and real black lights (aka non-LED below 400 nM) don't really go hand in hand. They make DMX controllable shutters for some of the lights (Wildfires come to mind). But you are talking a lot of money, not just for the shutter but for the fixture as well. Just a word of warning too, mercury vapor lamps don't like to be turned on and off rapidly.

If you can go mercury vapor, I highly recommend it over fluorescent. Much more powerful, even on a watt to watt basis. But like I said, warm up time can be killer. You can plan around it though if you get your timings down.
S Studio42 (Guest)
In this situation, the light will be left on for probably 3.5 hours during a rave. It typically starts at 10:30PM and goes until 2AM. So, turning it on and off rapidly won't be an issue.

A 30 minute warm-up time? Wow, that's a tough one, but I don't think this scenario would have it take that long to warm up since the light will have been in the room a good long time and will be at room temperature. I suppose as soon as the band is done, I could fire them up. But 400-watts per fixtue is a bit much draw, considering this venue has crappy power access. I also have to run LED lights off this circuit, as well as the DJ gear and monitors. I might see about trying to get the hotel to run a power distro with plenty of juice on tap next time.

In the Repo! show I work on, I should post what that scene does. I go from a wash to blackout to the 64 LED UV. Then short blackout, back to wash for a bit, then blackout and to UV again. Repeat one last time. The times are different each of the times. I got about 1.5 seconds of blackout to get the UV fixture on. I sent Jingles a picture of the UV ligting up the girl.

I think I might go with the UV Washes mainly for the money side of things. I think the UV cannon would be the better solution but I don't want to spend the extra money right now.
S Studio42 (Guest)
In that case, time becomes a non-factor.

I read your post fast. I am learning Compu Show, redoing a light design in Compu Show(converting it from MyDMX), then doing a sing-along process to the film I'm doing the lighting show for(see the above) and recovering from a 3-day event.

Also, most of the street lamps around here take forever and a day to come on WHEN and IF they come on. They are NOT an ideal example.
S Studio42 (Guest)
Well, what kind of temperatures are we talking about? I don't think overall it should be a big concern. I don't think ADJ or Elation would release an unsafe fixture, so I suppose it's a non-issue.

Last summer, my amps thermalled because some genius at the hotel disabled the AC for the rave. Talk about sweaty anime funk.... that room reeked with the lack of air flow.

When I was at Disneyland last, now that I've been sufficiently entertained by the many dark rides(which I still enjoy), I look around. I see lots of compact florescent-type fixtures that remind me of those ones you added links to, all over the dark rides. it's interesting how the mentality is in the parks about certain things. With their heavy theming and decorations, you'd think they'd make an effort to at least put some sort of covering to block the fact there's a fixture there. They obviously feel nobody is going to do anything but look ahead. I just can't completely recommend that, because if you do that, you miss a fair amount of other details that are INTENDED to be seen. That's different than what I'm doing of purposely looking for how things work.
FM Former Member
Heat won't really effect mercury vapor in a negative way unless you are talking like 150+ degrees. Cold increase the warm up time. Again, the colder it gets the longer it will take. 50-40 degrees is when you will really start to notice an added length of time. Below freezing will start to take huge amounts of time to warm up.

The temperature is not a safety issue, it is merely a time to turn on to full issue. Unless you are doing something really stupid, like having an 8k Fresnel pointed right at the unit point blank range causing it to cook, temperature won't actually cause a problem.
S Studio42 (Guest)
So, in other words, I have nothing to worry about.

As I'm moving to ALL LED lighting, and all my non-LED stuff isn't anywhere near as powerful as an 8k Fresnel, I'd say I'm about as safe as I can get.

Now my other questions are: If I go with the UV Cannon, do I get one or 2? That's a budget issue that I have 7 months to deal with(unless I lose a contract). Right now, funds just got diverted to other elements(wireless equipment), which is also affecting some budget for other projects, which I can say are optional anyways.
FM Former Member
That would be a tough call. Depends on how much you have going on in the room really. When I did that dance concert in the summer, one I posted a video of on here, I had a 400w mercury vapor UV down center. Now, you could only see the UV on the groups towards the center, it didn't really get upstage. I had a ton of light on the stage though, so I think it would depend on how much light is on your target.
S Studio42 (Guest)
Well, ravers like their dark. The like to flink around glow sticks and wear these finger lights. They'll love the blinker pins I'm designing.

House lights will be killed for the rave event.
The 8 ADJ 64 LED Pros will be pointed from IN the stage for concerts to OUT to the dance area, but mostly UP so as to not to blind the ravers. The 4 Mega Panels will be mounted at stage level ON the stage, about 6-8 feet IN the stage and in front of the DJ position and pointing OUT from the stage but through the stage. These 12 lights will be running sound active mode via DMX.

I just want to cover a large area. The seem to want UV lights. The good thing is that since this is MOSTLY under 21, booze won't be an issue, and fortunately, UNLESS they are sneaking in drugs, the hardest they are gonna get is Poky sticks.

The room will mostly be pretty dark. The throw from the lights I have already provide what security feels comfortable with for the environment.

The thing with this show is that there is no target. People aren't focussed on the DJ position and the MC keeps trying t throw attention back to the dancers he brings on stage or keep it on the audience.

The floor of the room is me at the back or middle at the FOH position(depends if we go big or small room), and full of sweaty Anime fans. Got those ranging from barely dresses to full on cosplay ravers. People move around a LOT, both in and out of the rave, as well as all over the room.

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