myDMX+Notebook+Wireless Keyboard

I have not. Are you sure i couldn't talk you into getting say like a launchpad midi controller? It lights up and is guaranteed to work with my dmx on any netbook or laptop.
Sincerely,

I'm stepping back in.

Self employed or not, you're wasting tons of time to get something to work that will fail. Move on. Maybe your boss self should tell your slacker self to "move on".

The issue is in fact with the hardware. Your netbook. If not completely, then at the very least, partially.

Here's the deal:
To save money, the netbook maker(as many others do the same thing) don't use a dedicated USB PORT per USB port. They treat the mouse, keyboard and all the USB ports as a single hub. Yes, we're not talking bank-breaking numbers here, but it does shave around $25 off per unit as well as reduces some weight and components. If you're saying "well they still gotta wire it up and make ribbon connectors for the mouse and keyboard", you're absolutely right, because they have to connect somehow. I sure hope they aren't using surface contact mounts as those are guaranteed to be problems anyways.

But is it truly MyDMX? Possibly. But if the hardware was designed better, it might not be such a big deal. Remember that netbooks are designed to be cheap and have massive battery life, yet still remain compact(yet screw functionality, it's a bitch re-loading an OS into one)

MyDMX simply put DOES NOT like USB hubs. I can not state this enough. When adding a USB hub into the MyDMX equation, MyDMX will NOT like the USB hub, to the point where it becomes unreliable on IO functionality.

Case and point:
Theoretically, anything hanging off a USB hub should simply appear as an individually addressed device(dynamically, per session). So, it doesn't matter if you have a 4 or 7 port hub or are chaining hubs to get that 128 device maximum. Each device will have its own unique ID for the entire time it's connected per boot or connection, and that unique ID is what is keeping things sepparate.

MyDMX tends to want to latch onto the first USB device that it sees off a hub. Another reason why to not place the MyDMX hardware on a hub.

Placing the MyDMX hardware on a hub, it ran unreliably. But, it also would NOT see my 3 Korg nano-series units(I have the pad, key and kontrol units).

Today's testing, provided I am allowed to test(don't ask, it's f*$%ing chaos around here right now), I will be playing with the following hardware on a MacBook Pro that I use for MyDMX all the time(yes, it ain't a netbook):

7-port powered USB 2.0 Hub(can work non-powered, but for this testing I will use the power supply)
3 Korg nano devices
Move my wireless mouse dongle to the hub.
(no wireless keyboard, so not an option to test with)
MIDISPORT 2X2 MIDI interface
Off the MIDISPORT, I'll locate my Roland MS-1 Microsampler to behave as a input device.
I also will have 2 open USB ports to move stuff around to.

I can also take a M-Audio Firewire 410 firewire audio interface and use the MIDI ports on that as well for additional testing of multiple MIDI inputs, but I first need to locate a convenient device to use as a second controller, which could be a problem.(I can't find the MS-1 right now!)

Previous tests:
Using the same hub and the korg nano's, I plugged in the MyDMX dongle into a USB port on the computer, and then plugged the nanos into the hub, which was already plugged into the other USB port on the computer, leaving the wireless mouse in a USB port on the other side of the computer.

MIDIOX sees all three nano devices. So does Sonar Home 6.

Launching MyDMX, MyDMX sees the nanokontrol because I made it learn a MIDI command for a channel. It even responds to it afterwards. I even assign a few others off the nanokontrol as well. So, OK, let's trigger a scene using the key: no go. Won't see the key.

Quit, no save.

Relaunch.

Try again, no changes other than I want to use the key to trigger scenes first, so I'll program that first. MyDMX sees it. OK, good. Let's add the kontrol back: nope, no good. Still sees the Key, not the control.

Repeat test with the PAD. Same results. Sees the first MIDI device.

Could it be that it's because MyDMX sees 3 USB MIDI devices? This is "as opposed to a USB MIDI interface" such as the 2X2? We'll fine out soon enough.

At this point, I have some real concerns. I'm looking to get a Novation Launchpad for use with MyDMX, but I also need to use the nanoKONTROL for direct channel control. I also need the wireless mouse because a trackpad in a time sensitive scenario doesn't work good for me. I also want the PAD and Key for additional control surfaces, but are minor after the Launchpad comes in. At the same time, I may also require additional MIDI devices for control(say, an external sequencer, for which a netbook may be ideal as that function).

I also can't at this point agree with Jingles based on my observations. The Novation Launchpad may work fine but I wouldn't guarantee it. I like the concept of the Akai APC-40, but it's too big and bulky and requires a sepparate power supply, but it does have faders, knobs and buttons. But, I need multiple MIDI Ins, and if I can power it all via USB, that's less to lug around and set up. I don't mind the USB hub. I can also make wiring harnesses to speed up set and strike.

This is similar, but simpler than what you're trying to do. Again, despite the issue of being wired, what's wrong with a Launchpad?

It appears that MyDMX doesn't like "like-type devices" to have more than one input source via the same interface, but that may be negated by my wireless mouse working, as well as yours. With no keyboard to test with, I can't test the keyboard issue. But it could be because my trackpad and keyboard aren't USB devices either, allowing a second input of a wireless mouse to be allowed to work.

I'm definately NOT ruling out MyDMX as this point, which is a change from my current position. But, as I am NOT an ADJ employee(or Elation), I'm allowed to take any position I want. I also get paid to BETA test stuff, so I'm used to beating the living crap out of gear and saying "nope, ain't gonna cut it"(maker said their gear was bulletproof, so I hired a friend with access to armor piercing rounds from his 50-cal and we shot holes through it and said "Uh, might want to re-think your marketting!" Yes, I went purposely extreme!)

Issue 1:
Netbooks have all sorts of shortcomings with them as an inherent part of the design philosophy, which may vary from brand to brand and model to model. Due to a lack of standardization in this developing area of the sub-netbook(which you have, not a regular netbook, and in those regards, what you have is mis-labelled), it will become increasingly difficult for not only Microsoft to ensure compatibility, but likewise for makers of the subnetbooks to find a common ground to ensure they can get things running. Similarly, developers of third party hardware and software will find it more difficult to support an ever widening range of devices to try to support that may be developing their own standards. This is a common issue that continues today in even the modern marketplace. Apple doesn't have this problem to the same extend because they are more rigid in their requirements.

2: There is something going on with MyDMX. Costs be damned, it appears there is something overlooked somewhere, especially in regards to MIDI(known ongoing issues) and USB(probably has been ongoing issues).

3: Your other laptop doesn't have this fun problem. This points more towards your subnetbook now, or at the very least, ensures it is part of the problem. Call my crazy, but I've got 4 laptops(one being a netbook, not a subnetbook), and none of them show the built keyboard and pointer devices being USB devices.

Suggestions:
Take a look at the device manager to see how this computer looks at the mouse and keyboard input. I plan on doing this with my MacBook pro in a bit(I'm not on it right now, I'm on my video editing workstation) and seeing how Apple is addressing this issue. But it is running XP Home, not Win7.(Apple hasn't released Win7 drivers yet so I don't feel like screwing with it and Vista is not allowed on my network). It should be interesting to see how Apple is handling this, because my wireless mouse is of course USB. But, as I may have eluded somewhere else, I am considering the bluetooth Apple mouse and keyboard just get the USB port back.

Back to my testing:
Should MyDMX pull the same "first USB MIDI device" crap with the nanos but via USB ports and not the hub, that supports the like-type devices via same type interface, regardless of source stuff. I also have to find other goodies to play with to help testing.

It's a lot of testing. If I don't have to watch my brother in laws pee and poo factory dog for the day(I'm already doggie-sitting my sister in laws micro-mutts, but my 2 pugs are fine), I might get a lot accomplished today.

I'm willing to buy a Launchpad, especially since I have a 20% off for GuitarCenter good Thursday. BUT: If MyDMX ain't gonna play nicely with more USB MIDI devices, where's my motivation?

We have similar concerns, but just via different products. But, a a wireless keyboard costs less than a Launchpad. Still, I think a dedicated MIDI controller would be better suited for you. The buttons light up, they are bigger, and less likely to make mistakes(which might not be a problem). You do give up the wireless, but I don't see that being much of an issue. For me, in my situation, the wireless mouse is a convenience that speeds set/strike, not a space issue, because flat out, I have no space anyways. But for how I have to set-up, sometimes I can't reach the computer. I can place the mouse on a clipboard with a mouse pad on it and I can use the mouse. The nanokontrol comes with ample cable so I can put that pretty much where I need it to conveniently be.

A 10"X10" square might be a bit bulkier than you would like, but it would definately look cool! For me, with my oversized laptop, there's room in the case, so it's no big deal, and light-up buttons are a big deal as I'm working in a "light deprived environment", so light-up buttons sure do help.

Right now, if I were you, you have multiple choices:
Choice 1 is to just sit and wait. You're not going to get fast resolve, or perhaps ANY resolve on this issue.
Choice 2: Stop spending money on wireless keyboards. You've proven this won't address your issue, so knock it off. The good news is your problem has been consistent, which is more critical even though it's a negative. Well, unless you want to try a bluetooth option, that would be my only suggestion. I'm not entirely sold on Bluetooth though.
Choice 3: Don't use the subnetbook. You're getting the results off your Toshiba, so uh, why are you so intent on fighting this issue?

Had my money situation not caused my bank accounts to become depleted, I'd have bought a subnetbook by now, and probably a wirelesss keyboard and mouse AND a Launchpad, and I'd have more definitive answers. It is becoming clear that a subnetbook isn't a good solution, and for like $200 more I can get a full featured laptop, I think the money is better spent on a full featured laptop. My issue is I want my MacBook Pro back for ProTools at events, and get something less powerful for MyDMX(because I can't justify the need for a power beast for it).

Right now, this whole thing is in a wait and see mode. Don't waste more money on wireless keyboards, none are going to resolve your issue. It might be time to consider either an alternative solution or go back to your Toshiba.

Time to wait and see what the developers say. I don't know, it might be time for a MyDMX 2.0 release, mainly due to the necessity of fixes in order to ensure proper functionality of the product based on what the product should be doing.

quote:

Self employed or not, you're wasting tons of time to get something to work that will fail. Move on. Maybe your boss self should tell your slacker self to "move on".

I don't appreciate your 'opening salvo' comments. I can easily drive you, but it serves no purpose - so let it go.

Hey, I make great money - so dropping a dime on something is not an issue for me. I'll just use it for somethig else.

ADJ needs to figure this out, and since my setup is working on a laptop, I'm a happy camper so far, but this issue is not going away.

More and more people are going to buy new computers, not discontinued or refurbished junk, and run into my same issue (yep, just ONE).

Chris, I do appreciate your comments again, but relax on putting people down at the same time. We are all here to learn from each other, so how about losing the 'tude dude.

P.S. I've OFFERED to send my sub-surface-tower netbook to ADJ to test with. It's not like I'm asking them to spend money on equipment . . . I'll pay for postage both ways too!

Let me just say that I am at the mercy of my developers of this program. and usually if they have not found a resolve for me by now then it will take some time to finally get a resolve to this problem. so i do hope your in it for the long haul. So.... ready to check out a midi device in the mean time?

quote:

So.... ready to check out a midi device in the mean time?

No. ;-)

I have a working system, but if ADJ can figure out what is happening with the ONE problem, I'm all for downsizing.

I have pleanty of time to wait . . . (hopefully).

Thanks Jingles!

I don't see ADJ addressing this issue promptly. And really, half the issue is the subnetbook itself due to developers all going cheap for this platform.

Why not promptly? It's not just a matter of "fixing it", it's a matter of testing it, and that's usually where the slowdowns come from. It's easier to deal with firmware rather than computer software because there is less to test. Also, there have been some ongoing issues that haven't been addressed to my satisfaction with MyDMX as well. I realize we're talking an entry level program, but it doesn't have to have such errors.

OK, so I get why you use the wireless keyboard. I would request a photo that shows your set-up. It might help a bit. It might however negate the need to use the wireless keyboard.

Now, you're using the wireless for "freedom of placement", not because you're out and about and want to trigger at random locations throughout the venue. That would be a VNC application really. But still...

I think the MIDI device option would be the better way to go. You have easy access via the Launchpad to 240 triggers, but you do have to take the time to program the controller, which can be mind-numbing in the repetition. But, 60 pads times 4 banks, not bad, PLUS you still have access to CC controllers for real-time control, so you get a lot in a little 10" square surface.

Consider these options:

Using this:
American Audio UNI LTS

You can lift your laptop up a bit.
For me, that shelf is ideal for say, my Korg NanoKONTROL.
The bottom is open for another control surface.

Now you're only burning the same space as a laptop(more or less), and giving yourself more vertical space for other stuff. This might resovle some of the need for the wireless keyboard.

THIS IS ASSUMING that MyDMX won't choke on 2 MIDI USB devices regardless how they are connected. Note I am saying USB MIDI Devices to mean a device that is doing MIDI functionality via USB, as opposed to a USB MIDI interface, which is using USB as a transport only and as I/O to the MIDI chain. BIG difference.

With the light-up buttons, you can get where you're going fast. BUT(key but here): it is wired. It is using standard A-B USB cables so you can get longer cables. It does not need extrenal power, such as an Akai APC-40 or APC-20.

Right now based on observations, specs and dealing with a few dozen subnetnooks, I can't say I have real faith in this being a robust hardware platform. I see this being for students to take notes and do little things here and there, and people who want portability and battery life, but NOT raw power. Think the "soccer mom's going to Starbucks" kind of target as an ideal user. Agian, made for people who do their crap via websites and webmail, low knowledge, little skills sort of target client.

Think of it this way:
Would you want to tour with that subnetbook and rely on it to get you through your gigs? I think you'd have to say "no".
I take excessive measures to ensure my machines stay up and running. I even carry back-up discs and a USB stick full of my core load of software(16GB stick almost full). I even have the Windows updates in the order I need them logged and documented and saved accordingly. so I can pick up where I left off if need be.
Ideally, you'd have at least 2 identical machines, one live and one standby/hotswap, or at the very least a ready to go boot drive.

Honestly, as much as you may want to go subnetbook, I don't think this is the way you or anyone else should go. In part, it is due to how these dinky boxes are made. The other is with how MyDMX deals with certain thigns, which a full featured laptop will not have the same issues. While the novelty of a dinky little computer wears off fast, and the bottom line is that the capability IS there(as far as CPU power, RAM and even video memory), it's just not the right tool for the job the way I see it. And this just isn't a recommendation for you, it's for everyone considering this. I've had lots of experience with the subnetbooks recently and I just do not like what I see.

So, again, for my sake, what makes the wireless keyboard so mandatory? Because if it was me, I'd have moved on and resolved this issue already with either another solution or gone back to my working solution(your Toshiba laptop).

And what is the resistance to a MIDI device? Or at least a USB MIDI device?

Now that I've moved 1200 pounds of gear to find the 1 bit of gear I was looking for, and I pulled a muscle and am in severe pain(don't know what I did or when, so I'm a bit confused by how this happened), I can get to the testing I wanted to get to earlier today, which in part is for your issues and concerns.

I will say I had to move most of this gear anyways, but I was going to wait until the weekend.

Failure sure is fun.

I won't go into why I have to be up at 7AM, and can't get to work until around 10PM around here, but let's just say that's how it goes. And to make testing more fun, my korg nanopad has failed most likely as an in-box failure as it's barely used and touched. My korg nanokey has a broken black key thanks to my kids using it to beat each other with, so the damn key keeps popping off. Then, my MIDISPORT 2X2 has failed. So, instead of testing, I spent all night until 4AM troubleshooting.

Thanks to finances, I can't replace any of the bad hardware. Calling vendors, they are "just go buy new ones" and I said "I spent good money for working hardware and all of this is under warranty, so why should I have to pay for anything?" I guess they don't feel that people have finite funds(or in my case are constantly screwed out of money by family).

So, needless to say, testing has been a bit inconclusive. I'll bring my Firewire 410 into the mix even though it's a firewire device and doesn't properly address the testing I am doing, which is supposed to be for USB devices only. The Novation Launchpad will be ordered later today and should arrive middle of next week. The nanoPAD and 2X2 are hitting the trash pile unless I can get RMAs, but the nanokey might also join them because the damn plastic clip also broke on the black key so it won't stay, making that device effectively useless.

(note: the kids are choosing to attach my keyboard on my MacBook Pro now. Seems they've inherited the destructive street from my wife's side of the family. Want to hear about that? Don't ask right now, I'm busy replacing power plugs on cables they borrowed because they like knocking the grounding lugs off since they like to use 2-wire cables instead of 2. Didn't realize that "good manners" dictate that it's OK to break stuff and bring it back broken without telling people about it.)

Anyhow, I also gotta find some cable securing materials that someone "put away", so that slows me down more. Will update on the testing when I have viable results. I'll fight to do work during the day.

Update:

I orderd a Launchpad and a new MIDISPORT 2X2 Anniversary Edition USB MIDI interface on the 17th of June 2010. It didn't ship until June 21, 2010.

I've replaced my broken Korg nano devices(key and pad).

I have a feeling the Launchpad is NOT going to be a good fit. Hre's why:

First off, it's designed around Ableton Live, which I actually do have a use for, and hopefully the included software does what I want and need it to do(think a 360-systems Instant Replay but with a much smaller bank of available sounds, which is fine). Ableton Live acts very bidirectional to the Launchpad, so when you load a session file, it's also loading the MIDI map file and the active function files or presets that correspond to the Launchpad AND the session.

MyDMX is PASSIVE when it comes to MIDI. Which means I don't think it's going to cause the Launchpad to light up. While I have no doubt the Launchpad WILL in fact work as a MIDI device, the light-up alternative that Jingles and I have been focussing on, I think is now probably NOT valid in regards to MyDMX.

Even so, let's say that the developers choose to make MyDMX a true MIDI capable application(even within the limitations of MyDMX's original concept and design) and have it appear to be a virtual MIDI device to the OS, I think the same problem would still exist: the Launchpad will not be lit up. I still think the Launchpad would work as a MIDI device though, sending data via punching keys.

Until further testing is complete(which may take a while), I can't really say anything definitive. My gut instinct is now more along the lines that my previous suggestion of the Launchpad as a viable alternative is flawed based on the need for a lit-up controller though.

So, until my Launchpad arrives on Thursday for testing, this is the assumptions I'm working with:
a: It WILL work. It WILL send MIDI commands(note on) and as a result, it WILL work with MyDMX
b: It will not light up when used with MyDMX.

As I ponder this, I debate even accepting the package. Without lighting up, honestly, this device is worthless to me. Why? Because I bought the device with the main intention of using it with MyDMX, and the idea was that I do in fact NEED the light up functionality. So, my testing is definately applicable to the thread and discussion, even though its an alternative solution being pitched to the original poster.

I do however need the MIDI interface in the package.

Testing has been delayed more. The new Korg nanoPAD is defective and I'm not in the mood to even deal with the nanoKEY. I am planning to return them both. Guitar Center is sayin no returns on this items claiming I was going to do a swap to get working items.

Guess what: I'll show up with my existing DEFECTIVE items along with the new items to prove I ain't doing a swap. I'm getting my money back. I am tempted to buy an Akai little keyboard controller as I just don't have the confidence in the Korg nanoKEY as the basic design itself for the black keys lends itself to being pulled off due to poor design.

I'll see about doing an escape tomorrow to do the refund/return. This may be the straw that broke the camel's back. I dislike having my integrity questioned. I can EASILY find a new dealer for any and all my wants and needs for all things audio or lighting(wait, I take that back, I already have a lighting dealer I deal with exclusively for lighting gear).

So, Guitar Center is looking at saying "bye bye" to a client for life if they screw this up, and I betcha they will.

Screwed themselves out of an order for 4 Shure bodypacks. Screwed themselves out of an order for 2 new Sennheiser wireles mics with body packs. Screwed out of accessories for siad body packs. Screwed out of an antenna combiner order. Probably at least $4K of money of money they won't get. I already have 2 other dealers picked out. One is my lighting guy.

I may reject the incoming Launchpad now and the 2X2 just to spite them as well.

Ugh, sick and tired of having to be angry. Now to have time and money wasted. Unacceptable. I don't have time for this crap.

Note: This is gear I need for regular work and testing anyways. I'm not digging into my own pockets just to test for this guy. It's stuff I need for the most part anyways. Just, timing lined up to make things appear coincidental.

ADJ's service should take note:
You guys don't do this sort of "treat your clients like garbage/criminals". Thank you. Perhaps you should teach a customer service course to the likes of Guitar Center.

OK, status updates:

I'm on my Macbook Pro as a Mac right now. I regularly use it as PC with Bootcamp and that's where I run MyDMX from.

Launchpad arrived. MIDISPORT 2X2 Anniversary edition arrived.

Let me remind you of recent failures:
MIDISPORT 2X2(not anniversary edition)
Korg nanokey(broken key)
Korg nanopad(POS!)

MIDISPORT 2X2 Anniversary goes in, easy. Testing works.

Launchpad installs nice and smoothly. You have to run AutoMap(free, optional download, it shouldn't be an option, you NEED to get it) in order to get the keys to light up without running something specific, such as Ableton Live. So, this take care of the light up part, as long as whatever color you want is red. BUT, just as critical, you can see your pages and pad values, so that's real important.

Did the Launchpad work with MyDMX? Yup, sure did. Lit up too thanks to AutoMap. So far so good.

With or without AutoMap, Page 1 of the Launchpad is note triggers, so of course, those worked fine with MyDMX and learning MIDI. Absolutely NO problems. I do recommend that AutoMap be run to enable more advanced functionality of the Launchpad or else you're not moving off Page 1.

In the right hands(perhaps not mine), the Launchpad could be one hell of a controller for MyDMX. But, without better implementation of MIDI, it's not going to happen so gracefully for most users.

Further testing is halted for a bit. I mean, I have been up since 7AM and run ragged, then this guy calls for a last minute label print and it takes forever. I can't start my testing until 11PM, so I'm already fried right now.

A few things to consider about the Launchpad:
Colors are symbolic to what's going on, so using AutoMap, you are UNABLE to alter the colors. I hope you like red, because that's what you're getting for pad color.

Now, on a tangent, this is why I'm on my MacBook Pro as a Mac. I figured "I haven't really explored all my options with the original MIDISPORT 2X2". Sure enough, it works FINE on the Mac, but it's not compatible with the latest set of PC hotfixes and the latest driver from M-Audio under XP. I really don't like spending money I shouldn't have to, but it gets stuff done because in the meantime, I do have t et stuff done.

With a wider assortment of MIDI devices and USB MIDI devices, testing with MyDMX is going to get interesting. I still need to return defective gear to Guitar Center, which may result in an exchange for something else. I'm worried about 3 devices using the same driver causing confusion to MyDMX, but with a MIDI interface, a Launchpad, a Korg nano-device and perhaps an Akai device entering the picture, now shared drivers won't be the issue.

I'm personally more interested in the MIDI testing. There are KNOWN issues in this area.

But the main thread here is USB issues with MyDMX. I can show there ARE issues, but they also involve MIDI as well, which only helps confused the hell out of everyone. I suppose I could leave my wireless mouse receiver plugged in and go grab my MS optical mouse and see if things don't explode! That would be a flat out "like for like" type input device, which may be applicable to the MyDMX issues.

For sure, there are things the developers do need to look into. We have to remember that no NEW features will be added to MyDMX, which means all they have to do is fix issues that need resolving.

If this crap with how subnetbooks handle USB and general IO(keyboard and mouse), it may appear USB issues also need to be investigated.

Well, an update:

Testing will be delayed for a few days. Gig on Sunday, and Saturday I just want to relax for a marathon Sunday, although it will be a short day. I'll see if I can get the bands to bump up if the in-betweeners don't show(very likely).

I have enough gear now to thoroughly ensure some sort of super chaos without driver sharing issues. To make things even more difficult, I will add a powered USB 2.0 7-port hub and will run MOST of the gear through that. I'll also add in my wireless mouse, and a wired optical and ball mouse, plus a wireless numeric pad. A recent influx of cash for some recent small jobs and I might get some new Apple bits of gear(the new mouse and the wireless keyboard, which I think connect via Bluetooth). Add in a USB MIDI interface and a firewire audio interface with MIDI, and stuff on each of those MIDI interfaces, and well, if MyDMX ain't gonna just explode just after launch, well, then it should be some very interesting results.