Why doesn't DMX....

I second this huge disappointment. (Comscan LED in my case).

How about Revo 4?

I second the DMX losing some of the pre programmed and sound active options.

Hey guys, the idea behind using DMX on a fixture defeats the purpose of using the fixture in sound active. Most times if you are using DMX on a fixture you want full control and won't ever really use sound active. We do have some fixtures that allow you to adjust sound sensitivity and also the speed of the macro programs.
Sincerely,

Sound active mode is more of a low to lower-midrange controller feature, which is typically used to bounce through steps in a chase.

On MyDMX, it's simply not an option.

At the same time, DO read your manuals of your fixtures. Some fixtures support being placed into sound active while in DMX mode. However, some fixtures DO NOT. For a show I do, I actually utilize the sound active function in fixtures for a few scenes. Fortunately, I am lucky in that all my fixtures that are DMX capable support sound active functions while in DMX mode.

Jingles... In my opinion, DMX does not replace sound activation, for DMX users it is an embellishment... for me, I would use sound activation on most every song i use and about 60% of each song... I build scenes for verses and choruses and it would be great to allow a little movement from various lights at various times without having to program multiple steps each time... Only having some fixtures that do this does not help much unless you are saying that you have duplication in fixture models where the only difference is in the ability to allow for sound activation while using DMX...

Chris, I know that you see the value in combining functionalities since you do use that... It would be much easier for us consumers if all lights would have sound activation under DMX control rather than have to download manuals to see if what functionalities are available... then in the case of the Galaxian, find out that it is not stated.

Don't get me wrong... you guys are much more knowledgeable than I am and probably ever will be... and I respect your comments... and if I didn't like the lights I purchased, I wouldn't have bought them or kept them... I am just saying that sound activation is a huge functionality to loose by going to DMX... kinda like saying that there is no need for a 'black out' or 'full up' because most of the time the lights are on...

Maybe I am confused, what exactly is everyone referring too in this thread? The Lack of sound trigger capabilities IN My DMX? or a general gripe that most of our fixtures that do have sound active don't have enough control over how the unit reacts to sound in DMX mode? Or both? Let me know.

Kinda both.... the sound activation mode is just the best example because most fixutres have this functionality if they are not being controlled (via DMX)...

DMX gives a tremendous amount of control for every other aspect... but I can only speak for the fixtures I own... in my case, with my fixures, the only thing laking is not being able to couple sound activation into my bag of DMX tricks...

After re-reading... I see what you are asking... so not being a programmer or a hardware designer, I don't know which piece needs the enhancement... i don't know if fixtures need to be made so that they can have 'sound activation' controllable by DMX or if DMX needs to be programmed to allow control of 'sound activation' functionalities... to me, I would guess that it is a programing thing inside the fixture... allow a channel to control sound activation. That channel's level can control sensitivity...

but the way it has been done for years and years is that once in sound active mode, that's it. you forfeit any further control over the unit unless the unit has been put back into DMX mode or Master/Slave. The UC3 controller helps this a bit, but not a huge change. and all it really does is access the internal programs as if you were flipping through them with a DMX controller anyways.
sincerely,

While you are correct, that for a long time it has been that having a fixture in sound activation mode you loose DMX... I can say by the same logic (I am alost 60 yrs old) That for years we used gels, dimmer packs and a roadie!

Fact is... If you want to move ahead, you gotta change... I went to LED's and DMX... and now its time to give the consumer the versatiity these new lights afford... just because in the past someone decided to take away functionality, does not mean that it isnt time to give it back.

I can't believe that when offered the option of DMX plus DMX controlled setting to allow the light to operate in sound activation or the option of loosing sound activation when in DMX, that anyone would choose to loose sound activation.

No one decided to take anything away. There was nothing there in the first place when it comes to sound active in DMX. It is now how it always has been and I don't see it changing unless there is a HUGE demand by consumers and I don't mean just too ADJ. I mean lots of other companies getting more demands. I'm not trying to be rude but I am not the typical employee who may go, ya Ok we will look into it. I'm not gonna lie, I don't see this changing any time soon. It maybe the harsh truth, but........at least it is the truth.
Sincerely,

Also I do respect and understand your point. I'm sure if it does come it will be a cool thing to behold.

Thanx for your insight into this... I thought we had sound activated lights before DMX was invented... I remember back in 1969 having 2 plastic globes that each had 3 light bulbs in them... they would flash to the beat of my stereo whilst pumping out tunes played by the Beatles, Genesis, and on the anniversary I must add Elvis...

So you are saying that ADJ introduced lights with DMX control capabilities prior to their having lights that were sound activated?

If not, then yes, we did loose functionality when DMX came along... or at least trade (even if it was a trade up).

I still think that someone had to say... 'ok guys, we have this new protocol called DMX that we need to incorporate into our light fixtures. What all do we want it to do?'

Unfortunately, keeping the sound activation was either not thought about, was not needed, or thought to be too expensive to implement.

And Jingles and Chris... you guys have been nothing but excellent for every post I have ever read or been part of... It feels good to be able to bear the burdens of customerhood to individuals who truly care about the industry...

Thanx!

I might add that if each of the lights I have came out with 1 extra channel of capability, that being a channel that when activated allows the the fadder of that channel to control sound activation sensitivity... I would sell all of my lights and pay between $50 and $100 more per light for that funtionality...

It could so enhance my show...

Well, there are OTHER products out there with sound activation, such as Compu Show, which can accept input from a wide variety of sources.

Otherwise, I suggest:

Ensuring fixtures have a sound active option when in DMX mode. Such fixtures also tend to have a channel change to a "sensitivity channel" when in sound active mode. the ADJ 64 LED Pros do this, as do the Mega Panels and Mega Bar 50's, as well as the Pixel panel and the Elation Opti Tri Par.
Making more scenes and triggering them/activating them when necessary.

There's almost always a solution if we know what to ask, how it ask it and know what to look for. Not always, but at least 98% of the time. That other 2% is still resolvable, it just takes more work.

I don't think anyone is confused about sound active/pre-programmed vs. DMX. I for one completely understand the control that DMX is supposed to hand over to lighting operators be it DJ or otherwise. I also understand that there are fixtures out there that support entering into some of the pre-programmed shows/sound active mode. For my money on a pair of comscan LED's, instead of multiple channels of relatively useless 'gobo shake' (That'll be a crowd pleaser...not) why not replace that with the built in shows AT LEAST with entering into and out of sound active mode. Think about it, you setup for a wedding, you mark the spot where your bride and groom are going to be then set the scene for spots. Meanwhile, you use sound active to put on a great light show while gramma and company get tanked. Then comes the speeches, etc, you flip out of sound active mode and voila, spots are on best man, bride, etc. Seems like a no brainer to me. I am personally highly disappointed, these are not 99 dollar Mini Galaxians, these are relatively expensive scanners with DMX ability, we have to sit down and spend hours trying to duplicate the pre-programmed shows via DMX. DMX is suppposed to give you more options and control, not remove functionality. I am tempted to just return the software and just use a bloody remote. At least I will have an instant light show with blackout capability. I don't think basic RGB mixing and utilizing the pre-programmed or sound active mode is too much to ask. Id like to see ADJ provide a firmware update to change or expand the functions to include these options. Check out the following fixture (ADJ), notice the Sound Active mode IS available...(Page 8, Channel 4 value 255)
http://www.americandj.com/pdff..._move_led_plus_r.pdf
My point is that it should be standard for any fixture that has pre-programmed or sound active capability and is DMX capable. Give us options, don't punish us for buying the ADJ DMX software by removing functionality.

Paul, if your not happy with your products by all means return them in any way you can. We don't want users to feel like they are "stuck" with a product.

For the Com Scans a quick look at the DMX chart in the manual online before you purchased them would have told you that Sound active is not an option in the DMX traits. For the sound to light function that was never even an intended feature when we designed My DMX it is designed for a simple and easy to use basic lighting software controller. If you don't like doing a lot of programming for DMX lights then a DMX controller is not really for you. but a UC3 would probably clear up all these features you bring up.
Also what do you mean by, "Basic RGB mixing"? you talking about the Com Scans?
Sincerely,

Wow... my intent was not to end up in a situation where users are put in a position as to take it or leave it...

In any case, I would be interested in knowing if it is technically possible to build functionality into a fixture that will allow control of sound activation in addition to the current functionalities.

If it is technically possible, what would the cost be to include that into future releases of products and how much monetary impact would that be to customers.

If it can be done, and if the market bares the price then ADJ has an opportunity for a whole next series of lights... for me and my mere 18 lights, I would have not flinched at a $50 per fixture increase and probably went up to $100 per fixture meaning $900 to $1800 more for the profit chain.

To add sound activation scene chase functionality to MyDMX, how would you want to see it implemented? You'd need to make your scenes and then drop them into a chase "maker'.

I think what people are looking for is something a bit beyond what MyDMX is going to handle.

Paul C wants to have static scenes that can run while other scenes operate. Sounds like a Compu Show/Compu Live application to me. Sound active? I know Compu Show handles that.

People need to do as much research as possible before buying into something. People also have to realize that MyDMX, at it's cost, is competitive with other products in its price bracket. Yeah, there's some pretty cool free stuff using cheap hardware for an interface, and yes some of it is rock solid and reliable. But, when you get into a jam or need to ask a question, where's your support? Why, you get what you paid for: zilch.

Many people buy MyDMX expecting it be the "ultimate solution for their needs". It's a great product, no question. But at the cost, it can't do it all. You have to keep in mind that MyDMX was designed to be easy to use and mainly for a DJ to use quickly. That isn't to say it's a dummy product, because you can do a lot of stuff with MyDMX, especially when you invoke the FX generator.

ADJ isn't the first to offer "feature limited" versions of their products. It's actually more common that you realize. I have certain data comm products where I have to use activation keys to unlock features and functionality. It's there the whole time, but I have to prove I'm allowed to use it. That's just on some hardware. There's a security platform where you can buy a base serial number, which on its own can determine what functions are available from the get-go. If I need more features, I have to buy additional keys. In other words: one code base, but many different product service offerings. Roland with their Sonar product offers in in various flavors and costs, however, these are more like scaled down/up versions depending on what you are purchasing. ProTools is similar with their M-Powered, LE, HD and TDM platforms, although those tend to also be further restricted by the hardware they attach to.

I suppose ADJ could do something similar with MyDMX, but why bother? Jump over to Elation with the awesome Compu Show package.

If people want their sound active stuff, then just buy dimmer packs and pop them in switched mode and put your sound activated fixtures on those. Problem solved.

As far as building in sound active functionality into a fixture, first, it's been done. You have sound active fixtures, so there ya go. But, now you're asking if sound active can be added into DMX traits? Sure, it's done all the time, many fixtures support it. Want a sensitivity control? Been done too. But, I think the question is can a fixture that has sound active functionality but lacks a sound active function when in DMX, can such a fixture be modified so as to support sound active in DMX mode? Sure it can. All you need to do is learn how to program a ROM for the fixture and you're all set. Then you get to make your own profiles for use with MyDMX, which if you're willing to do the effort to make a ROM, spending 15 minutes making a profile is no big deal.

Now, as far as a company such as American DJ offering such upgrades, I'm mixed about this. Overall, I feel that such functions should be available in DMX mode if you make the fixture have a sound active mode for non-DMX usage. Offering a replacement ROM? Sure, that would be great, even if at a cost. I also think the price of anywhere from $50-100 is not an unreasonable cost that many users, myself included, would be willing to pay to get such functionality. But from a product development and ongoing support issue, it is sometimes more economical to simply develop a whole new fixture, as odd as that may sound.

Regarding "take it or leave it", that's how the industry works. "Here is the product, there ya go". And then someone like you examines the product, sees that it's something you like, but then you have this not so unusual requirement where you want a sound active function in the DMX traits, and the fixture doesn't have it when in DMX mode, but has a regular sound active mode. You got two choices: buy it or don't. Either way, you have a right to your opinion, and saying stuff along the lines of saying that you really would like to see sound activation(with a control channel) in DMX mode for that fixture is something that marketting and sales should be listening to.

You're not the first to complain about this, and it will be a while before the last person complains about this. I have been left with the impression that ADJ is listening to customers wants and needs and desires and is doing things to try to help satisfy the needs of the customers. That's just good business.

Pulling back to MyDMX vs. Compu Show:
I have both. I am also learning Compu Live and will learn other Compu products, despite Compu Show being the flagship product. Just because I am running Compu Show, I still keep MyDMX installed and functioning. It works fine and has a genuine application and purpose in my rig. I'm sticking with MyDMX, I like it for my band shows for now. But, for my theater-type shows, Compu Live is where it's at.

Lots to read there... and i'll need to read it more in depth after work tonite... but just an initial coment...

on a typical fixure.... when you connect it to myDMX... you have a fader that adjusts the amount of red, one that adjusts blue and one that adjusts green.

myDMX does not determine what colors the fixure can produce, it just accesses that feature.

why can't the fixure just also include control to the sound activation? Like the strobe feature that is workable under DMX, or the speed of rotaion on the TriPhase or H2O Pro?

What you are referring too is the functions that were programmed into the fixtures DMX ROM in the first place. My DMX can't create an effect if the effect isn't programmed into the fixture. If you are really new to DMX read this: DMX 101 Hand Book

Right! I don't want DMX to create the effect that is already built into the fixtures ROM... I want the ROM to have the functionality programmed into it to let DMX control it.

All of my lights (listed in my signature) can use sound activation when they are not connected to DMX.

I want to be able to use DMX to set the sensitivity level... as I think about it, the lights, when connected via DMX, can always be set to be sound activated. That channel in DMX can be adjust to from 0-255 for Very Sensitive (full on) to Not Very Sensitive (takes an extremely loud sound to activate them)

So I could set my washes to be full up all of the time on every scene I want, and when I shot off a cannon, the washes could explode too...

Right. My only point I am trying to make is once we release a fixture to market we are not known to release new or updated ROMs for those fixtures. It is not something a lot of companies do. do we strongly consider in the future what will have SA mode and what will not? Yes we will.
Sincerely,

That’s all I could ask... future release of current and new models... its understandable not to do upgrades... can I get a list of which fixtures that ADJ has that has sound activation while using DMX?

BUT... I bought 2 of the H2O's... pre DMX... then 2 weeks later I found out that a new PRO DMX model came out... I returned the two $169 fixtures and ordered the two $399 fixtures...

We don't have a list of products that have Sound active via DMX. All you have to do is look at a fixtures user manual in the DMX traits and if it says sound active or something similar it has it.
Ya we actually had the H20 out for about a year before we released the H20 PRO. It's all in the timing of the purchase. Depends on where you go if your salesman is knowledgeable and cares more about his customers than making a buck he could have told you it was coming making you wait to order. They could have informed you and saved you the hassel of returning product when you could have just ordered the right until right away. I'm not blaming the dealers or sellers but it was another option that could have resulted differently.

Sounds like another good oportunity for ADJ... build a search engine where you can select features that you are looking for to help determine which fixture suits your needs...

I have not seen any that indicated that they could utilize sound activation via DMX... and I would think that these types of fixtures must be few and far in between...

Yes good idea I like that. I sent it out to upper management.
Time will tell.

With a side note on DMX sound activation for all future lites... right

No promises but i will put a bug in their ear.

I think in today's market, if the fixture has a sound active mode, it needs to have sound active in the DMX traits. I've talked to dozens of people and many of them have the same complaint.

DMX should be abou not only GAINING control, but also about not loosing features and functionality. by choosing DMX mode. Also, if there is a built-in program mode, it would be nice to have a channel access those programs.

We must concede to losing master/slave functionality though. That would defeat the whole purpose of DMX.

Agreed... thanx for being so concise