What to charge.......

I guess it depends on the market. Band gigs usually pay much less than say, a corporate gig. I've also heard that self-owned rigs go out for like 200-300 a night for band gigs.

It all depends on the rig you have and the band your work for. Usually, the more money the band makes, the more you make and vice versa. Sometimes, bands don't want to go too far over the top, but some want all the lights you own. So, some customization may be in order for each group you work with.

You have to figure too, the more often you work, the more money you make. This also leads to the concept of streamlining your rig. Pre-wire trussing, mark where fixtures go, consolidate/organize, use multi-conductor cables (but keep everything safe--don't cut corners).

I think you need to take more into account when charging:

>Length of setup/teardown
>Length of the gig
>Transportation (gas, etc)
>General wear and tear (lamps, juice, mental wear)
>Labor (are you setting up your stuff by yourself or are you paying someone [note, girlfriends like to help you the first 2 times but not after that])

Rental companies in my area genrerally send out 8 Par 56 systems with NSI dimmers and two tripods for $150 with NO operator.

You are bringing small par cans, intelligent lights, fog, haze, and color changers for $200. I think you are selling yourself short. I would try for at least $300 and if need be debate down to $250ish.

For small Band gigs, I bring out 16 Par 64's on 4 stands for $350 people seem to like that amount. If they want more I throw in 8 more pars or 4 mighty scans.

Other things to consider:
>Nice cases for your equipment (people aren't going to be impressed when you roll into their venue with rubbermaid tubs or cardboard boxes)
>Black extension cords instead of orange (green can work sometimes)
>Larger pars. I started out with home made par 38's and realized I couldn't do anything larger than a small band stage. Perhaps you need to consider larger pars [like 500 watt 64's/56's].
>You didn't mention dimming or control, what do you have to control your lights?

----I am not trying to be mean or discourage you, I went through the same thing as you a few years back, I still have an internal battle when it comes to pricing. I just want you to be as prepared as possible before you actively put yourself on the market.

Good points trucker.

Selling yourself short can be an issue. If you do a show for one price, others may expect the same for their situation... not giving any thought to the things trucker mentioned (setup, tear down, etc.).

Establishing yourself and networking will be the key to success. Get the ball rolling and don't let people walk all over you.

Best,
-Tech

i'm currently pricing my rig out at $350 a night...often bargaining down to $300.

Rig includes, 6 dj spot 250's... 6 par 38's, 4 dj scan's, 2 dmx strobes, fog hog vaporizer, 1 30mw green laser, (when it can be used). All that along with the console and trussing.

Just to throw it out there ........

i'm also curious as to what anyone else is getting these days and what your rig consists of....

how much ? good question
Location, Location, Location
I guess it depends on What kind of set up you have and the band your working for.
If a band is getting 1000.00 to 1500.00 per night
I would go for the 250 to 300 price range.

I use a rear truss with 8 par 56 cans and 4 scanners. Out front I would use two tripods with 4 par 56 on each.

quote:

i'm currently pricing my rig out at $350 a night...often bargaining down to $300.

I always give a different price depending on the setup and customer but I always start out pricing high around $400-$500 and end up bargaining down.

I run 8 par 56s, 2 Mighty scans, 4 Djscan250s, 4 900 watt strobe lights, smoke machines and varius special effect lights (mushrooms...etc)

good to get the feedback on this.....I've added 8 pinsopts to my rig. I'm also going to add a special for in front of or behind the drummer. I'm finally ready to launch some advertising in a few weeks.....I'm in the Wash DC / Baltimore market......let's get a final show of opinions on where I should start my pricing for a one band / three set club show....

My 2 cents from a working musician's standpoint.
If you have anything smaller than par56s or large washes (not color changers) for fills, your setup will look rinky-dink compared to what most working bands already own themselves. Even 32 par 36s still looks like a whole bunch of little lights on a stage. You didn't say what you originally built your system for, but it sounds more like a DJ setup than a live band setup. Most bands will tire of a DJ light show real fast. Personally I hate stage lighting that is constantly blinking all the time while I'm playing (guitar/voice). Most lights do that themselves and don't ask for $300 night to do it. I want to see dramatic scene changes that take the audience by surprise and enhance the music, not just constantly flash for 4 hours to the beat. That's fine for a birthday party or DJ/Dance-club, but bands have little use for that kind of show. The only way to really cover a stage in color is either a gazillion little lights (PITA to set up) or up the pars to 56 - or go with the newer type DMX 900W+ Stage Washes.

My 3-piece rock/blues band uses the following at many of our gigs:
16 par56/300w wide floods
12 pin spots
4 Pocket Scans
5 250W Color Changers
2 1500W Stage Washes (front)
2 1000W strobes (back)
8 little 'egg' strobes (hung above us for SpecFX)
Fogger
(other brand) DMX board w/ MIDI foot controller so I can run the lights easily onstage.
6 trees all w/ crossbars on top, 60 feet of flat 1 foot truss + a 10 x 20 foot aluminum 1ft tri-truss rectangle with tri-truss corners that we fly for outdoor shows & large rooms.
Enough heavy black muslin to completely surround the stage for a backdrop and side curtains.

Of course if we're playing some joint that only holds 150 people standing up, we'll go with the 2 1500W washes in front & just put them on slow cycle, hang the backdrop on flat truss & be done with it. 90% of bar gigs pay $600 or under and you'd be the world's best salesman if you convince many bands that they need to give you half or more of what they make for your light show alone. You never mentioned a PA so I'll assume the band has to provide that themselves or use a house PA (they're junk more often than not). If they have to rent that in addition to your lights, they see the math as :: You make $300, the Soundguy makes $300, they get free beer and have to pay gas and everything else to play + still have to come up with 20% to pay the booking agent for the gig. Pretty tough sell!

In Wisconsin, light shows like mine are what lots of working bands own themselves and if your setup looks like a DJ setup, bands won't want to rent it at all, much less pay $300 for it. There are several companies that rent production (full production) around here for $500/night and they show up with 2 guys in a 24 foot truck, not a guy with a minivan.

Tuckersound also made a great point - professional cases and transport equipment. You show up with a bunch of Home Depot Tupperware and you likely won't be asked to do anyone's next show. Even my little old band has everything in Anvil or similar. I've been doing this 32 years and my stuff wouldn't last 32 weeks if it weren't for at least $2500 in cases. I've also had plenty of club owners comment on how pro we look onstage and they aren't talking about my haircut. Customers also are a lot more likely to hang out later if they're there during load-in and they see all touring quality cases instead of Rubbermaid garden tubs.

The funniest thing I've heard recently was some drunk old chick at a bar when we were coming in with our pre-racked par56s & tri-truss:
"We're outta here! Any band with that many lights is gonna be WAY too loud!" ;D

As Flash2003 said, if you're selling yourself to bands making $1500+/night, you should shoot for about 20% of that. That's what most pro bands pay their booking company and if you're getting more than that, you're either dealing with inexperienced or very generous musicians. Most musicians are notoriously cheap and asking for half what they make will probably price you right back to your garage.

Good luck,
- JJ

http://dirty-ernie.com

excellent advice gnarles,

my only disagreement is that when lighting smaller venues I typically like to use my par 38's vs 56's. There lighter, and smaller. In a smaller venue they look better. While one could argue that you could just dim your 56's a small venue with p56's all over takes away from the atmosphere. I completely agree with you that on a medium to large scale venue 56's are the way to go hands down.

Another great piece of advice that gnarles stated is one of the worst things you can do is have lights constantly moving around to the music. Like gnarles said the idea is to compliment the powerful points in the music while maintaining the appropriate atmosphere the other times.

-Mike

Agreed, we do both live venues and mobile DJ but we keep separate lighting/speaker rigs for each. We're considered more a medium to large venue SoundCo and the only things we keep in plastic totes are disposables that never leave the truck: rolls of gaffers tape, spare bulbs, speakers, etc.

Pricing is the hardest thing to do for live venue, as it always changes based on promotional budget, location from the warehouse, size of venue and if we have to arrange for our own staging or tent setup. Those are the next things we plan on buying for ourselves but still a ways off.

Pricing for mobile DJ on the other hand...well in the KC, MO area it's common to charge $100 per hour, min of 3 hours with either a reduced price on anything over 4 hours or stay a flate rate.

Oh and we seldom use all our live venue lighting at once, most places don't want the pinspots or fogger anymore. Seems a lot of the bands are starting to complain that fog smoke tears up their throats--most don't realize that they get more damage from a smoke filled bar than from our 1k fogger.