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I bought one of these units a month or so ago and thought that some of the issues raised here were being blown out of proportion. I took it out on the road the other night and wished I hadn't. Fortunately I had my old console and CDs in the car as a back up so I was able to change the unit out and interface it into the old system for mics before the party really got going. I have used it like this a few times on different amp systems.

I have been totally converted to the use of DJ software with its easy of use, playlists and the karaoke option all in the same unit. I prefer to have the outputs into a conventional mixer (not a sofware mixer) but this is a personal preference to have a backup CD player incase the PC/Software crashes I can get music back on in seconds not in 5-10 minutes. The VMS4 is absolutely ideal for this and a dream to work on - appart from the technical issues:

1. Mic Inputs - lack of headroom/gain between pre-amp and gain control-amp - even on good quality low output mics.
2. Main Output - lack of volume/power on balanced output for some amps
3. Main Output - lots of background dirty noise caused by cross contamination - need to turn the amps down and the mixer right up - not ideal
4. Lack of headphone volume - my Sony headphones were fine but my backup pair aren't loud enough when the volume is up in the height of a party

Given the number of significant problems on the current issue of the VSM4 it would seem the only logical solution to overcomming such significant design flaws. As a qualified electronics engineer I cannot see how AA are going to overcome some of the problems without changes to the main circuit board as it isn't going to be something that can be overcome by a few simple changes to the onboard firmware program. These issues need alterations to the actual harware and components.

From a selfish perspective I can see only a few solution at present - they all start off by selling the thing as it is and:
a. wait for a Mk2 with these issues removed,
b. try a number of competitors products as a direct replacement,
c. get a DJ controller to run virtual DJ or similar software and then use either a mixer with built in multi-channel usb sound card (citronic have a nice one but I personally don't like the tiny layout) or use a conventional mixer with a separate usb souncard off the laptop - prefered option but none offer the quality of build or all in one solution offered by the VMS4.

All I can say is that in hindsight I think AA should have withdrawn the item or stopped production before it got to this stage. This would have allowed them to re-disign the boards without these problems - at present their reputation is significantly damaged. I do appreciate that the time taking to sort this may be due to the fact that they don't want to worsent the situation and they want to test proposed solutions before issuing them - they should have fully road tested the unit before it went to market first time.

Either way it results in having to take a hit on the VSM4 as I can't see AA offering a swap service to existing customers to get a sorted MK2 and I need a solution now not in 3-6 months time. (Based on this forum history they knew about these issues within a couple of months of issuing and there has been very little movement in the last 3 months - except for mic transformers which could have beeen done in a couple of weeks).

I shall leave the issue of 'goods reasonably fit for purpose' as required by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to someone with legal qualifications as this is not my area of expertise, but it is worth remembering that this item is meant as a professionals tool and not a bedroom toy.

All in all a bit of a let down as I had looked forward to this for quite a while and finally decided to go for it in time for Christmas party season. Just have to wait and see what else is out there.
great post derek..

i use mine 5 nights a week. i run mine directly into the house mixer so the volume level issue does not effect me as much. AA was ahead of the curve on alot of this mixer/controller innovation. the first real midi-log mixer was bound to have issues. i knowing that I STILL BOUGHT IT. it was one of a kind and their newer models down the line will be that much better for these lessons. i will sell mine in the near future for either the new mk model or a competitor model. AA always gives you good technology at a great price.
quote:
Originally posted by PandAura:
I'm pretty new to all this technical audio stuff but in regards to the low RCA output on the vms4, could you use something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/TC-780LC...ooster/dp/B000RZXAHI

I've found several line level boosters like the linked one, but most seem designed for small stereos or home theater systems. Would this cause unwanted distortion or noise when used with more powerful systems?


I'm using this device without problems : http://www.musicstore.com/en_E...e/art-PAH0000111-000
Hi PandAura - in general terms most units providing a line level or balanced output as appropriate should be suitable. Weather its a DI (direct inject) box, an active crossover or just the output of a different mixer the amp will just do what it is designed to do - amplify it.

The output problems arising are generally dependant on the input type and inpedance of the amplifier itself - its actually the one thing that AA can't control however most units deliver over quite a wide tollerance band where as the VMS4 is right at the lower end of this band - hence the problems. This is the first time that I can remember I have come across a mixer of of this size that runs from 5V supply. They are usually around 7.5-9v although I understand why 5v will become popular as this simplifies design issues relating to USB connections etc.

The real point is - this unit was deigned not to need external assistance. Although the additonal cost of such an item is undesirable in real business terms it is small - its the inconvienince of more kit to set up every time.

On a sparate note I would point out that I have a variety of other AA equipment, particularly lighting effects, that are well made, rugged, very reliable and would thouroughly recommend. I am not saying I would never buy any of their products in the future as appart from the VMS4 I am impressed with their kit. They just need to hold their hands up, admit they have an issue (which they have so far) and ultimately get it sorted promptly - which seems to be their downfall.
gizmojmo - I have seen others that have used that as well with no prolems. But at my regular gig I just connect into the house mixer through RCA and it looks like that box only has XLR out, I would like to avoid any XLR/RCA adapters.

Derek - Ya I understand people were expecting this to be a contained all you need unit and were dissapointed when it had low output volume as compared to units over twice the price of it... I knew all this and I still bought the vms4. The next comparable piece of gear that I have found is the S4, which is $400 more, all plastic, and not without its own glitches and problems. If I have to spend an additional $100-$200 to boost the output then I am still saving money as compared to the S4.

I should be getting my VMS4 today! And my next gig is wednesday so I will find out then how the output is, I'm just trying to weigh in my options if I do get a lower than exceptable output as some users have reported.
@pumpitdj: We don't come on here to spread rumors. These things we are testing and improving right now.

@Derek: You are also an electronics engineer, and you realize that resolving these issues isn't trivial and requires PC board changes.

All of the 4 issues on your last post are issues we are fixing.

MICs: Giving them all of the preamp headroom they need without distortion
Output level: 4x level boost = 16x power boost
Output noise: lowering the background noise
Headphones: 2x level boost = 4x power boost
i will be returning mine this week after getting 3 units to try out. the sound card is just sub par for ANY real PRO djing. it can't handle TC control but after 5 months of being released there's a new version coming out....hmmmmmmmmmm makes you think. RUSH MUCH. i'll just stick with AA/ADJ for lighting cause that's all they seem to be good for. tried out an "amp" and i use that term lightly cause the rated 800 watts sounded more like 80 on my sub. but i digress...............
quote:
Originally posted by emarx:
@pumpitdj: We don't come on here to spread rumors. These things we are testing and improving right now.

@Derek: You are also an electronics engineer, and you realize that resolving these issues isn't trivial and requires PC board changes.

All of the 4 issues on your last post are issues we are fixing.

MICs: Giving them all of the preamp headroom they need without distortion
Output level: 4x level boost = 16x power boost
Output noise: lowering the background noise
Headphones: 2x level boost = 4x power boost


there are news?

The "old VMS4" community wait a retrofit... How gone the "Haltest" or road test to?

Is possible to self made the variation? Or is possible to have the scheme for our support and idea, this controller is a "open controller" say ADJ.

Thanks
I wish I had hooked this thing up to my main system earlier, I've had it since October, so I bet I can't return it. I hope once all these issues are resolved we can trade them in for a unit that might actually meet the printed specs.

My phone call to customer support was a joke, he didn't even acknowledge there was a problem.

I haven't had problems with headphone output, but have had the mic issue, and low output problem, as shown below. For now, my low audio and microphone audio fix will be accomplished by using a Behringer 1002, or Mackie 1402VLZ3

The following test was conducted yesterday by putting a .775v signal source into an analog channel of the VMS4.

The vertical is the voltage measured, the horizontal is frequency, so you can see the VMS has a slight high frequency drop off. I haven't calculated what it would be in db, but a slight EQ might bring that up.

I have a signal generator that I set the output as close to 0.775 volts as I could. 0.775 volts is 0dbu, which is represented by the red line.

I then fed this into each of the 3 mixers and measured the output on the XLR outputs across the frequency spectrum from 60hz to 20khz.

The VMS testing was done using an analog channel, I'll do another measurement using a ripped test tone running through Virtual DJ, but I expect to see the same results. As long as the meter on the mixer says 0db, the output should be close to 0.775 volts... not 0.210 volts.
Thanks for the great graph. I knew we were dealing with a serious problem re the output level but that is a huge difference (.775 volts vs. .210 volts) I can't imagine how the design or test team at AA didn't get this fixed before all these units got shipped out. I for one will be seriously upset if they do not offer a suitable fix.
Having said that I still feel it to be a great tool and I feel pretty sure they are going to fix this for us.
Keeping my fingers crossed...

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