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UV and Blacklighting: LED or conventional?

G Guest
OK, my director is coming up with more ideas. First run of the show went relatively well. Producer had complaints about volume(I can't heaar overall volumes when you cram me at the front of the room!), brightness(some attributed to color choices, but I think lighting fixtures played a factor as well), and hanging ground fog issues(which I can fix with fans and power packs).

Now she wants a UV/blacklighting effect. Now, typically speaking, my past experiences with blacklighting has been reserved for trips to Disney parks, where they are used typically in a full-time ON position within the rides, and my being nosey reveals those to be conventionals, at least in the broader sense of the term.

UV and blacklights are essentially the same, based on my understanding of them. My follow spots have a supposed UV filter in them, but it looks more pinkish and doesn't seem to really do the tas it seems to suggest it's supposed to do.

My question is multiple:
I need to light up an actress for 1 scene, and I'm going to have to ground mount it most likely. What product might be more ideal?

Do blacklights come on instantly? It seems the ADJ UV-LED might be overkill and I worry about the 10-degree vertical beam, mainly since I'd have to mount it on it's side, plus the price is too high for a one-off use(per performance). For the price and need, I'm best off using a power pack and controlling it that way. I just do need rapid ON for sure.

Is there any real advantage over going LED vs. conventional? Due to the nature of the scene, power savings aren't a major concern, so I have flexibility there.

Comparing the ADJ UV Panel HP to the Elation UV Wash, I see a big price differene(in favor of the lower wattage Elation light, wow!), it confuses me as to which one is better. But both are wide coverage and I need a bit more "narrow", so I wonder how some sort of blinder system may work to control the output pattern. The problem is the actress to be lit up is not a problem, it's another actress on stage who will be wearing a white outfit that we don't want to "glow", and yet another actress who is wearing a more complicated outfit that we also don't want to show. We have to keep this light constrained to center stage.

I have other issues such as "where exactly is this light going to go". I'm also exploring other options. I'm sure there are more product offerings from ADJ and Elation. I just want to keep my budget down since I an replacing my 8 ADJ 64 LED Pros with something higher powered, then using the 64 LED Pros to replace these unliked non-ADJ branded lights. Then, whatever I have left over I want to get a couple of Mega Panels to replace my Color Fusions.

Note: I already have the dealer picked out. I just ned some advice so I'm not going all over the place.
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FM Former Member
LED UV isn't true black light like florescent or mercury vapor fixtures are. LED UV projects a lot of visible light, like the UV filters in your spots. They give a nice glow and make things pop. If you want to turn off the lights and just see white/florescent colors, UV filters and LEDs don't work at all. So if you want a true UV effect, it needs to be conventional UV fixture, mercury vapor or florescent.

With regards to instant on, some are, some aren't. Mercury fixtures take time to warm up, but are generally much more powerful then florescents. Florescents have a much shorter warm up time, some with none at all, but generally aren't as powerful as mercury vapor lamps.
S Studio42 (Guest)
Well, this helps narrow things down a little bit. I was thinking the LED one might be the best option, but hey, what do I know. That's why I'm asking.

The filter in my conventional spots does not look UV at all, it doesn't even make anything POP. I'm using it because it's closer to pink.

So, now I can rule out the ADJ LED option and anyone else's LED option.

The ADJ UV Canon is way overkill, and the UV HP Panel might be overkill. I'm cooncerned about throw and directivity. The Black-24BLB seems like more of a party-type unit, as do the other bulb/reflector simple units. The Black-48BLB is just flat out too big. The price on the Elation
UV Wash is attractive, compared to the ADJ HP UV, but it has lower wattage.

I'm only trying to light up one person but at an unknown distance, while hoping the other two actresses aren't wearing customing that's going to make them UV light-up like a freakin' tree. One is wearing a white shirt, and that's going to light up. The other actress's outfit shouldn't be as much of a problem. The actress that is supposed to be lit up is wearing a white gown in purpose, so that's not a problem. I'm also worried about what else the blacklight is going to cause issues with on the stage through no faults of anyone.

The director wanted a blacklight spotlight, but that isn't going to happen. Not practical. Honestly, I think this is a better task for a glowing puppet on a string. I guess if could find a small can-style UV light might be the way to go, or maybe a blacklight bulb in a Par38 case or something.

So, it's down the ADJ HP UV and the Elation UV Wash. Both are affordable options that I can run off a switcher pack.
S Studio42 (Guest)
It is entirely possible that Chauvet included the wrong filter in the follow-spot, but since it works fairly good as a pink(better than filter preceeding it), I've been using it as such.

I would find it a bit odd to see how using a conventional bulb and merely using a colored filter would address the issue.

Regardless, I'll go through my show and see if I used that filter at all. I think I did. I don't recall it being very effective at all outside of being a colored spot on the actress.

I'm not terribly concerned about the cameras right now. Yes, the events are heavily documented, but the show itself comes first. I'll pay closer attention. Might schedule some "tests" in my garage. I have to get ready for my 3-day event next Friday and the spots are going into the garage for a bit.
S Studio42 (Guest)
So, re-reading this:

If I get an LED UV can, such as the ADJ P64 LED UV LED Blacklight PAR Can, and I want it to make items to have that "spooky UV" glow, AND there will be other LED lights on the stage(my 8 64 LED Pros) lighting up other things, I'd be OK with going this route?

I'm pressed for time, but if I fail this time around, it's not a big deal. They are springing a show on me Friday or Saturday and I'll be there anyways running sound at the event I am already hired for(I think it was my suggestion to have them do something there)., and due to short timelines and limited availability, this may be the way to go.

Since it won't be a darkened room, am I safe to assume this should work satisfactory? I'm just going to put it at the foot of the stage, pointing into the stage right down the center.
FM Former Member
It will indeed make things glow. But again, if it is the only light on, it shines a really dark purple visibly. Basically the same as putting some R382 in a fixture and shining it on something. It will most likely have more output then the R382, but basically gives the same effect.

I can't really take a picture of the effect and show it, hence why I said it doesn't show up on camera well. I have some video of a dance show I did last spring in which the girls were wearing these capes and I put some UV break up on them as they danced. It didn't show on film at all.
S Studio42 (Guest)
Well, I may go cheap on this one and go with one of the low-cost 2-foot ADJ blacklight bars, seeing as how this is all last minute and all.

Considerng the retail price on the ADJ UV 64 LED, vs the 2-foot blacklight bar and my funds(bought 2 new mics and ordered 2 ribbon mics before I found out about this), it's going to be my call. I'm steering towards the UV fixture mainly since I know it will come right up. But money talks this time.
FM Former Member
The black light bars are actual black lights. As such, with those you can turn off all the lights and they will work like black lights ie only white and florescent colors show. However, they might have some warm up time like normal florescent tubes and I don't know if they will be powerful enough to cut through other lighting.
S Studio42 (Guest)
I don't think I'm in a win-win sitution here!

If I get the tube, it may not cut through the other lights. That's a concern. BUT, I can run them alone and they'll work. But this scene REQUIRES other lighting, as the actresses on each side have their own wash themes, so I'm not sure this is a good way to go. Sometimes cheap doesn't get it done.

If I get the 64 LED UV, I probably get what I'm after, but I can't really run it alone. But this may be the best option I have. Also the higest cost option.

If I get the wash panels(Elation or ADJ), then I am covering too large an area!!! With cost not far away from that of the LED UV option, but with a suspected warm-up time.....

While I am limiting my choices to ADJ and Elation, and it does narrow the fields a bit, I don't feel comfortable with other companies.

Might see if the store has Mega Panels so I can phase out the Color Fusions.... I'm in a hurry! The timing sucks. This performance is kicking my butt! I mean, it's stuff I have to do anyways. IF they could only wait 15 more days... But show is Friday. Ugh!!!

Thanks for the advise. Unfortunately, it hasn't done more than confuse me, but that's clearly not your problem or fault. But I think the LED can is the way to go, since I don't need "total coverage" and the scene allows me some cheater room. I gotta call the director.
FM Former Member
Lol, well, you know what they say. You can have it done fast, cheap, or well. Pick two.

The UV Panel and UV Wash don't have a warm up time. I have personal experience with both units. They do cover a large area however, like the UV Bars will.

How about this, just have your light broken up into areas. I normally do at least a left, right, and center areas. This way, I can turn on and off each area independently as well as have different colors in each area. Photo time, I apologize for the bad photos. Taken off a video that is all I have of the show and don't have anything more recent to show what I am talking about:

In this first shot, you can clearly see it goes from SR to SL, blue (R80), amber (R21), and R80 again. All these shots are from the same show, using 12 Source Four 19 Degree lekos, 6 a side, 2 per area from each side, lamped 750w. So basically 2 from HL and 2 from HR on SR, CS, and SR. Don't ask me how I remember all this, because this is 4 years ago this spring now Big Grin.


Next shot is each area in a different color, SR is R21, CS is red (R27) and SL is R80. It is a nice effect that doesn't take a lot of time or thought to setup.


Last shot is R27 on SR, R27 and R80 CS, and R80 SL. So it fades from red to blue, Again, nice, simple effect. I should have split the middle with R27 from just HL and R80 from just HR due to division on the cyc, but I was young. C'est la vie.


Hopefully that illustrates what I am talking about better. And man do I miss that theatre.
S Studio42 (Guest)
I definately agree with how you're doing things.

Pick 2. Yup, sort of like dating: Attractive, Intelligent, Sane: Pick 2.

I divided my stage into 4 zones:

L, LC, RC, R

If you don't chop up your stage into managable zones, it's impossible to manage. Then things just turn into a mess fast and that's not fair for the lighting team or the performers. To me, it made logical sense to chop up the stage into zones. Anything else would not have made a lot of sense.

I cover the zones with a 64 LED Pro from each side of the stage, trying to avoid shadows by hitting from each side. Works, mostly, pretty good.

So, Going on the lighting tree L to R, 1 covers L, 2 covers LC, 3 covers RC and 4 covers R. Repeat the same pattern on the other tree.

This works well for this scene, because L and R have key performers, while C is eaten up by the girl who will be lit up like a UV firecracker. To allow for greater movement, I am setting the center zone(LC,RC) wash at 50%, which is again where Ms. UV is going to be stationed.

What I don't like is how I have to aim the lights: dead across. I'd prefer to do a raised truss, but I have no place to put stands or motors(much less motor controls!) No rigging points, no ladders or lifts. I ideally would prefer doing things as you're doing things.

I had to make a purchase: the ADJ P64 UV LED. I also ordered 2 Mega Panels(none in stock). It should be noted that I could have saved over $200 by going with other brands(also not in stock for what I wanted), so ADJ, please note customer loyalty, OK?

My regular dealer is gonna kick my butt over not going through him, but I'll make it up to him with a future purchase. But he may still get that business anyways if I'm "not happy" with the lights I get. I am trying to figure out what to do next since the director says she's happy with the lighting I have, so even though now I want some better main cans, I'm now looking strictly to replace the off-brand ones I detest.

This whole ball of fun got pressed on me with insufficient advance notice.

I do have to take some degree of blame. I told the producer "hey, why don't you guys crash the cosplay, and since I'm your production company and I have that gig too, you have an unfair advantage". That somehow morphed into the even promoter saying "Hey, why don't you guys instead use up this big block of time instead of crashing cosplay" and then the producer and director said "Yup". Next thing I know, I'm advancing purchases 5 weeks!
S Studio42 (Guest)
Let me clarify what I am still confused about:

What type of UV light I should ultimately get.

Each offers its own issues and concerns, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. No clear and decisive winner. I was hoping for a information that would steer me stronger one way or another based on the information provided. What I did get was information I needed, which I was able to use to force a decision, or rather have to decide based on a forced situation.

Since we're shooting it at a specific actress, the decision was ruled down: The UV was panels were too broad, but with new information in regards to nearly instant on times, the lights have more appeal to me. The bar light, while cheap, doesn't appear to "put out" a lot, but based on wattage and shape, isn't really surprising, it's more of a party item. The UV canon is for big stuff. The ADJ 64 UV LED seemed to be the best remaining alternative: relatively narrow beam gives good control. It may not be camera friendly, and while a concern, is not a major concern.

So, I've gone with the ADJ 64 LED UV fixture.

Again, ADJ, keep in mind that there were less expensive options, as well as other options by non-ADJ and non-Elation brands. Please notice where my money went. Even at the expense of not saving money, I stayed with your products.

I guess it's fair. I saved like $100 on a microphone the day before. I guess it all comes out in the end.
FM Former Member
If you want a true, turn off the lights and get only the white and florescent colors glowing, black light, look to the AMDJ or Elation UV washes.

If you just want UV glow with some visible dark purple and much tighter control as well as all the other conveniences of LEDs, then get the P64 UV.

A suggestion, you can get the washes and then use some black wrap to control light spill. This would let you use real black lights and have come control of the area they cover then. It will be a bit of trail and error though, since UV lights emit no visible light. Try marking the area of the stage you want to cover in white tape. When it stops glowing, you know you have covered enough of the light coming out of the fixture.
S Studio42 (Guest)
I have the P64 UV on order, but I have no idea what the heck is going on anymore with that. I get different information every 15 minutes. Why sell items and then tell me it's backordered but was in inventory...... Tying up my money as credit when I need to now spend it elsewhere, so now I'm just shot in the foot.

What I am going to do is take your advise with a true wash fixture as you said before, the ADJ or Elation UV units, then use some blinders and wrap to control spillage. Maybe some sort of rigged snoot or similar. I can test this without being on the stage if I can control the degree of wash.

2 days from "Drop dead" and things ain't moving. I'm very angry. Decisions made, money spend, vendor screwing me.

All I can say is: It's not my regular vendor for lighting! I have NO issues with him at all. Just angry the timing didn't work out so I could have bought this all from him ahead of time, had it, and been done with this whole thing for the moment. Now my cash is tied up.
S Studio42 (Guest)
OK, update:

I've chosen to purchase the P64 LED UV.

Store sells me the fixture USED(I'm OK with that), but it's not in stock. I find this out TUESDAY before the show, and I'm ordering the product anyways. I have to switch to a NEW item for extra money.

(leaving out massive amounts of crap I have to deal with including overnight shipping to ensure timely delivery).

I'm checking my cell phone every 15 minutes with a UPS tracking app on my iPhone until I notice the things arrive. I'm also tracking a pair of microphones as well. So, I'm tracking a new mega panel, a used mega panel and a new P64 UV and a trio of mic boom stands from the same seller, and a pair of Cascade Fat Head II mics. The lights arrive while I'm at home via 2 different deliveries. The used mega Panel first, then the rest a short while later.(not the mics, which show up Friday)

Lights arrive but I can't do anything with them until show day. I set the DMX address. I've already added the programming into MyDMX, so it's now just a drop-in fixture(which is why MyDMX kicks so much butt!).

End results: Director happy. Stress over, test successful.

NOT buying lights from that store again. I'm sticking with my regular dealer. I don't need this type of crap in the future. I know that guy can take care of me PROVIDED he can get the items. From now on, he's my first and only contact. If anyone wants to contact me for his contact information, I'll gladly sent it your way. I'm buying MORE lights from him this year, probably within the next 45 days.

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