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This is an unexpected expense, so the budget is very small. They have not given me any numbers and I'm not familiar with this type of event, so I can only guess at what would be required.

From what I've seen on youtube, most of these shows are pretty big, with over head trussing over the ring and what not. I don't think this is going to be at that level. I thought I had seen some posts from some guys that do smaller shows.

They want something for the introduction walkway for the fighters, and then lighting the ring area it self.

The venue website is www.oilpalace.com
Here are my recommendations after working with pro wrestling. The needs are SIMILAR, but not the same.

First off, you want good wash on the ring or octagon or "area of mass destruction". That is your primary focus. Mainly, you want to have adequate wash to completely bath the ring and minimize shadows as much as possible. Shadows ad lighting IN the eyes of wrestlers is dangerous as they need to see what they are doing. As we all know, wresting is a show, and you do NOT want to impair their vision for THEIR safefy. In UFC, despite the fact that it is a real fight, safety is STILL an issue.

Technology? Your choice. I used 4 trees of 4 Par38's, one tree on each corner raised 12 feet up. It wasn't high enough. It also wasn't bright enough but that was because I gelled them Red, Green, Blue, and clear. Stick with white. Bigger lights are better, say Par56's would be good. LED's are OK if they are bright enough. My Par38's would have worked fine if I removed the gel's. It was OK, but it COULD have been better. The advantage taht Par38's have is a wide throw, that's about it. Check out I think November 2004 pictures on my web site for examples of that event.

Focus your main lighting on the ring. You can use trussing towers or crank stands(medium duty is fine). You're really gong to want to go at least 20 feet up and be at least 6 feet away. This is both for THROW(20 feet up) and fire requirements(6 feet away to maintain a walking path) Because wrestlers will go to that top rope, they ring can be 4-5 feet off the ground, with the top rope being ad additional 5 feet up, putting a 6" wrestler at head height 16 feet off the ground. Chances are they are taller AND their arms are gonna raise before they fly and hit that aerial. So, in the case of wrestling, you need the light that far up for suitable wash coverage. Plus, you need to cover the area outside the ring because the action WILL spill to outside the ring.

A note about wrestlers: They are gonna tell you want they intend to do in order to AVOID issues. They are also going to LISTEN to you in order to avoid issues. Fighters DO NOT need to do this, because their action takes place IN the ring or fighting area only.

Wrestling rings use 3 ropes and a somewhat shock-absorbing/springboard surface with padding. Fighting rings use 4 ropes and a stiffer framing and under the canvas is extremely minimal padding(if any, the trend is very minimal these days). I won't go into the various types of wrestling ring constructions, but let me say the guy I learned this stuff from, despite NOT being a big time wrestler, has a LOT of knowledge and was great to work with.

With fighting, you can use lower heights, mainly since the action stays WITHIN the fighting area. But, in the case of cage fighting, you need to clear that upper rail. You can move the lighting IN to practicaly onto the posts, but your audience sight lights are a concern and it's an ugly distraction no matter how pretty your wiring, cabling, trussing and fixtures on. You do want a fair amount of light OVER the top, but you can send some lighting through the cage.

With overhead trussing, you have rigging issues. You need to be a qualified rigger AND the facility have certified weight-rated fly points. You'll need to provide your own motors or some method of hoisting. Plus, the trussing, the fixtures, wire rigging cabling and all the goodies. None of this is cheap, but the biggest cost items are the sections of trussing. You can do all sorts of configurations: X, circle, multiple straights.... There is no single right way as long as safety is maintained and the loading is structurally sound.

The walkway can be cheated on. You can use movers or even spots aimed at it. Maybe a 10-foot truss with a curtain hung from it for entrance with a few attention getters hung on it. Some guys have "specific requirements" but at the level you're talking, they won't give a damn, they'll be thankful for anything you can give them. Honestly, most of these guys are not jerks and are very easy going. It's when you get into the elite ones that MAY give you issues. As long as they can easily see where they are going, they'll be happy. You might want a fog machine for those entrances and point some lights at it(the entrance) because it sure looks cool. Some guys don't like fog, most won't mind. Don't assume, ask around. Honestly, most of them won't mind. If they are wrestlers, they want fog. They want the SHOW no matter what unless they have a health issue.

An ADJ Crank-2 only goes to I think 10 feet. An LTS-2 only goes to 12-feet. After that, if you want more height, you really have to go to a medium duty crank stand or build yourself some towers from square or triangle trussing.

You can also go further out if you use LONG throw fixtures like optipars. But then you lose the ability to aim further INTO the ring from nearby. Really depends on your angles. Higher is better. Above is good too. Don't forget, you want to run your DMX signalling and power cabling out of sight and out of mind.

I don't know what you have. If it was me, and me knowing what I have and knowing what I know, I myself would NOT take the job UNLESS they had the power I need. I can sent up 4 trees of 8 Par38's each at each of the 4 posts or 4 locations near the ring. Put up a dimmer pack and I'm goog to go. Keep cabling nice and tight and taped down and it would be "sufficient" to get the job done with minimal onstruction. Not suitable for wrestling, but good for fighting. Give yourselve overlapping spread on all 4 corners and have some of the guys warm up before the audience get there, maybe even some warm-up sparring(non-contact). They are gonna point out issues, and DO fix them. Chances are you're only going to need to adjust the angle of a few of your lights.

Camera operators want it bright in there and a shadow free as possible and with as few obstacles as possible. Audience wants good sight lines. Fighters don't want to be blinded. You can compromise. If you can get good lighting, the camera people will work around the obstacles and the audience won't complain too much about obstructions. If you can make the fighters happy, you're done.

Wrestlers and fighters tend to be easy guys to work for. They tend to be very appreciative and wanting to help. Wrestlers will help more than fighters, but we're talking different mindsets, so don't expect much from fighters, that's just how it is. Do it right and you'll be called back. Do it horribly wrong and you're done.

I got screwed on a job because the repair shop wouldn't get my vehicle ready on time. Haven't worked a wrestling show since. Oh well. I am cancelling MINUTES before I would have to leave. I was angry. But they pay poorly so there ya go. But that was how that group ran. Nice guys, can't say anything bad about them.
Thanks for your input Chris.

I'm meeting at the venue today to see if this is going to work. They have no floor plan to give me, so I can only guess at this point. Below is what I have put together for what I have available, rentals, and labor.

For 4 cranks, 1 at each corner, about 20 feet out. 10 ADJ 64LED pros, 8 par 38 floods, 10 ft section of I beam truss for the entrance with 10 Chauvet 200bs, smoke, 1000 watt spot light rental and platform rental - $2200

How does that sound?
Just to follow up...I met with the promoter and the venue manager on Friday. We settled on just renting the fixures, and that the boom operator would be in on Tuesday, and we would meet at 3:30.

So I get there today, and speak with one of the promoters, she says hi and says she'll be right back. So I load up the fixtures and make my way in. Go upto the office to find the manager and or the boom operator.

I go in, ask the manager where the guy for the boom is, he says...he'll be here tomorrow. I say, so you don't have anyone here to operate the boom?...he says no. I start to walk out, and a man in the office with the manager comes out and says that I can use it but they don't know how to operate it. He said that I can't just walk in and expect them to have someone on hand. i stop and I turn and say, I sat in Jim's office on Friday with the promoter and Jim said the guy would be here today, and we all 3 agreed on 3:30. He started to say something...I interupted and said...you know...I think I'm done with people wasting my time. And walked out.

The promoter called, and we talked....and I told him I was busy the rest of the week, and today was the only day. He asked if I could come back (today) if he could find an operator...I told him I was sorry, but there was nothing I could do.
Genie Boom Lift or something similar most likely. A lot of arenas and high profile places won't let people operate them unless they have training with regards to them for insurance purposes. I had to get my cert because a glass cleaner drove one into a piece of glass at the National Constitution Center here in Philly. Well, these pieces of glass are actually structural to the building apparently and only one place makes them in the world, someplace in Russia. The piece of glass alone costs something like $200,000, not including cost to install and ship.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your gig going sour Casey.
a Genie boom is was it was. But I'm smart enough not to go pushing buttons and joy sticks on something that I don't know how to operate.

I'm only frustrated that my time was wasted by a few small time nobodys. but that's all I'm out...so I'm glad to be rid of it. Just shows you that there are people putting on events that have no clue.
Wow, sorry to hear about that gig going south. You did your research, you even took my advise, you did due dilligence.

But you did nail it. Small timers who just don't understand the logistics. They know they want an event, but refuse to really take into consideration what it truly takes to put on an event. It's more than throw up a ring(or cage) and there ya go. LIGHTS are super super important to wrestling and lighting events. Sound DOES take a back-seat as it has to to accomodate this sort of event, not saying sound has to suffer though.

All this takes time and cooperation from multiple parties. It just sounds like they asumed your only purpose for existance circled around them. Glad to hear that's not the case.

When I was doing wrestling events, the owner/promoter IS himself a wrestler but was very production savvy. He understood what it took to get the job done. Even operating small time, him and I got amazing results done(with help from other wrestlers of course). No genie lift options but we still did what we could with basically what I had(he still has MY ring, he could at least pay me for the damn thing, I wouldn't even consider selling it to someone else)

Similarly, I get the same sort of thing for concerts. They assume that since they don't know all the technical details, it must be simple. Therefore, concert at 7PM, load in starts at 6:45PM..... I got a call like that for an event recently. That coupled with like no budget, 4+ hours of driving(between there and back), bringing on my 2 best guys to ensure quickness in set/strike, and me crashing out in a nearby dive motel, and well, that small chunk of money quickly vanishes.

$600. Fuel is gonna cost me around $125 or more. My two guys are gonna run me $150/each, hotel will be around $70 for one crappy night, food not to exceed $15.... I don't make enough to get it done. I do "dirt cheap" locally, not outside my local marketplace(Sacramento County)

As entertainment services providers, we have to know when to walk away. It's a tough decision call. I'm finding myself having to make such decisions now that I'm offering discount service rates as I get people who want to offer far too little and demand far too much. Especially since the economy sucks, it forces us to say "yes" sometimes when we'd rather say "no".

What will happen is they'll find some other mark and abuse that guy and eventually get stuck with a bill higher than yours and chances are, lesser in quality services.

Hold your head high. You did the right thing. If they really get serious, they'll be calling you.

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