Troubles with MIDI triggering...

Without doing an intensive investigation into what you're doing(don't ask, my background is even more intensive), it's hard to say exactly what is going on.

First off, it's easiest to train MyDMX via note on commands, but you know that, apparently. Excuse my ignorance, there are so many MIDI devices that I do not know much about what the Roland FC200 can or can not do or handle.

Obviously, you're having success with MyDMX and MIDI triggering. But, live as a real musician, it ain't working so hot. I hear ya. But at least we understand that you have your signal flow happening right.

When training MyDMX, you want to keep things as SIMPLE and CLEAN as possible. Why? MyDMX will take the first thing thrown at it when "learning". I know, not ideal, but really, that's how it SHOULD work. Only send it what you want it to learn. If you're sending a stream, it doesn't know good from bad. So, if that "listen" screen is vanishing right away, yeah, you've got some sort of continuous controller(please, not CC) data going on and that needs to be STOPPED at least for training/programming/learning purposes. MTC uses different information, albeit in the same data stream, but it is uniquely identified. If something is using that to listen for a MIDI trigger, that's what we would call BAD. Do have MyDMX do this would require a deliberate effort on the programmers to violate accepted MIDI specs and norms and I doubt they'd make that type of extra effort.

Your isolate mentality is playing in your favor. It appear sit would be your keyboard generating all sorts of lovely fun stuff that you don't necessarily want. What I must ask is what are you doing with this keyboard? Is it a sound module/source? Is is a performance unit? I've seen tours with stacks of keyboards not played but used as sound modules because there is no rack equivalent. Ideally, continuous controller data should only be loaded when the data is being used. Such as a pitch bend wheel or portamento or after touch, things like that, when not in use, "go silent"

Is the keyboard also a sequencer? If so, is there a valid reason why it is sending MTC? If you're triggering tempo-controller drum loops, then MTC should be used, but otherwise, you should just hard sequence the drum stuff, assuming an external drum unit. Unless something has to lock to that MTC source(again, assuming MTC), why the hell are you doing that on stage? That's suicide. It's best to just do it right and direct call it.

But, I don't think you're sending MTC all the time. MTC usually isn't sent when no sequencing or say, SMTPE chasing is stopped.

What I'd do is dive into that keyboard and see why it's generating so much traffic. once that's done, I think you're probably 95% of the way there, if not 100%. It points at your keyboard based on your troubleshooting. Start there.

If you don't resolve the issue with the keyboard, it won't matter what foot controller you buy. Or if anything, train MyDMX with the keyboard not plugged in and see what happens with your foot controller when it sends data. Most foot controller sent patch change type data, but I would think MyDMX would respond to such commands. Just make sure nothing else is using that channel on that MIDI port, which is probably something you've already addressed anyways.

Hey Chris,
Thanks for the hollaback. Actually, the Roland FC200 is just a footcontroller designed primarily for guitarists. It's not a keyboard, and it doesn't generate sounds or sequence anything. It has 10 switches for choosing patches on whatever it's connected to, along with a few more switches for bank up/down and assignable control. It also has a "treadle"...a variable pedal used for assignable, variable control. Typically, the CTRL (control) switch is used for tap-tempo delays or kicking into and out of a solo, while the treadle is used for volume or wah sound.

The more I think about it, I don't think the FC200 generates MTC or has any reason to, so that leaves program change, note on/off, controller messages and maybe system exclusive messages that could be tying up the MIDI stream. Stock out of the box, the FC is in "program change" mode where it works as I've described. You can also change the mode so the various switches send MIDI note on commands or sysex stuff. I tried it in both program change and MIDI note modes, and myDMX responded the same...immediately closing the MIDI Learn popup window as soon as it opened. Disconnect the FC200 and it waits.

I'm wondering if it's the treadle and associated circuitry...maybe it's designed to constantly broadcast the pedal location very frequently down the MIDI stream to make the target react smoothly. I'm pretty sure the FC only sends program change commands when you step on a switch, so it's probably not that. Even in note mode, I think the FC only sends a note on command when you step on a switch, yet myDMX heard something in the MIDI signal.

I'm gonna dig a little deeper and see if I can alter the FC's output, hopefully disabling the CTRL switch and treadle and leaving just the program & bank switches active. I'll let this forum know what I find out...

I've seen plenty of foot controllers, and there's more coming out all the time, and I'm sure you've seen the amount of stuff they can cram into those things. Technolgy keeps evolving, so every 18 months they could probably cram 4 times more stuff in there, but we don't exactly touch-type with our toes!

But on a more serious note, I'm use to foot controllers having typically what you're saying: Patch changes, perhaps channel changes(like to switch amps, but that's usually a different type of floor controller) and sometimes a volume or other continuous controller function, but volume isn't a continuous controller function.

Now, I could see the tap tempo being a MTC type function, but I doubt it would generate MTC on its own. Those tend to be for internal functions, like an internal FX unit. But I'm not sure what the FC200 also has crammed in there. Is is merely a MIDI controller or does it have MIDI as well as other nifty things in there?

As I've said before, continuous controller data is only being transmitted continuously as needed,

System exclusives? I doubt it. That typically requires a unit being thrown into SysEx mode to either dump or receive. It's not that. You don't really want to be sending SysEx around during an event, it's not wise. It will cause problems at some point. Nothing will die, or rather stay dead permanently, you just might zero your unit to have to get rolling again. Not fun live!

I think your idea with "when the keyboard is not connected the window doesn't go away" is more along the lines of what you're looking for. That seems to be the piece of trouble gear based on your description. That's where I would start.

In my case, I have tools I can use to check if any MIDI OUT is chatty. I have a pair of MX-8 MIDI routers in my keyboard rig and another one in my drum rig. I can merely route an output to an INPUT on the computer MIDI interface and if that light is flickering, I know something ain't behaving.

Streamline to program MyDMX. You want to simplify, and if possible, JUST use what is necessary. Stick with a single otherwise unused channel JUST for DMX triggering.

I don't know if you fixed your total problem, but I found that you must have midi NOTE messages (not commands) to trigger midi lighting controllers. I set up a Behringer Foot Controller last week for a band that wanted to trigger a bunch of Quad Gems and Revo III's. It took me awhile to find a guitar pedal that I could get NOTES to be sent. The Behringer FCB 1010 had the option of assigning NOTES to the output switches - and it has seveal pages of assignable space. Works like a charm....hope that helps.

I don't know how accurate or complete that statement is. What I would like to see is the MyDMX developers issue a MIDI implementation sheet that other MIDI devices have.

I am of the opinion that note ON(not just NOTE messages, remember, there is a NOTE OFF as well) are what should be used to trigger scenes. But likewise, why couldn't program changes trigger scenes? Other MIDI controllers can be assigned to DMX channels. Say, you've got a JL Cooper CS10 fader controller that also has knobs on it. I know I could(but haven't tried yet) to assign faders and knobs to specific DMX channels of my choosing. This would be a great way to control a mover, for example.

You do bring up a very valid point. Most guitar and bass and other footboard controllers often work more with either internal changes, or sending program changes to an external device, not typically note on/off. Why? Well, think about it for those not using them: Most foot controllers are used to change FX or sound parameters. It's mainly used to do some sort of singal processing change. These are typically done by recalling "patches" or programs, which are then called in using a PROGRAM CHANGE call. If MyDMX is not programmed to listen to program change messages, then there's no way that your footboard controller is going to be able to get MyDMX to respond if it won't recognize such MIDI messages in the first place.

I guess the issue really comes down to which MIDI controllers are going to provide the necessary triggers for MyDMX. it is well known that not all controllers are created equal, and there's a reason behind the logic behind the hardware design. Short of trying them all out, this forum would be a great soundng board for what's working and what isn't. With thousands of possible users reading here and hopefully more signing up and participating, people can help direct others to working solutions.

It may be a good idea for ADJ or Elation to develop a MIDI controller designed to integrate with Compu Live and My DMX. Have it have built in USB and MID In/out/thru ports, faders, knobs some pads and some keys. Might get a bit costly, but if they could keep the price under $250 and have it be fairly portable, light and durable, it should sell well as an optional add-on product, OR, sell as a stand-alone MIDI controller.