Strobe lighting... Snapshot II

yeah i would say 2 or 3. or maybe a dmx strobe if u have a dmx controller.

Never use the "it's what they sell here" be an excuse unless you're under the gun.

I have multiple dealers I work with, and I can get almost whatever audio, video and lighting hardware I need, delivered to my door(usually). Thanks to the internet and mail order, you're no longer limited to the local MI store for your goods. The only time I need to see a lighting fixture is when the downloadable manuals don't tell me enough and I need more information.

See a previous thread where I asked about strobes. I haven't made a final decision, but I'm leaning towards the lesser expensive of a couple of models discussed. Either way I'd be happy, but the more expensive one is just over-kill for what I'd be needing it for.

Go with a DMX solution. You won't regret it.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pickett:
Never use the "it's what they sell here" be an excuse unless you're under the gun.

I have multiple dealers I work with, and I can get almost whatever audio, video and lighting hardware I need, delivered to my door(usually). Thanks to the internet and mail order, you're no longer limited to the local MI store for your goods. The only time I need to see a lighting fixture is when the downloadable manuals don't tell me enough and I need more information.

See a previous thread where I asked about strobes. I haven't made a final decision, but I'm leaning towards the lesser expensive of a couple of models discussed. Either way I'd be happy, but the more expensive one is just over-kill for what I'd be needing it for.

Go with a DMX solution. You won't regret it.

Yes I agree with you, but for mobile DJ all I need is something basic and DMX strobes are very expensive and then you would need a DMX controller and a switch (power outlet) to hook up my non itellegent lighting such as my vertigos so they can work with the DMX controller. But all this gets expensive and I don't know if it's worth it. Or if it's just better to go with just a basic stobe. But eventually I would need a DMX controller when I get intellengent lighting. I am just confused??? What you think?

What, you turn on two Vertigos and that's it for the night? Man, your audiences must be really easy to please. Can I have their numbers?

Hey, I like my Vertigo too, it's a neat fixture, but as you grow, how do you intend to get things on and off conveniently? Why, add a DMX power pack. And how do you control that? With a DMX controller.

My advise: Think ahead. In my case, the DMX Operator I have is really barely used. By barely used, I mean I am not getting into programming the thing, I'm just using it to cycle lights on and off. But that was in 2001, and this controller is still way too much for me in terms of feature set. I'm just scratching the surface of what I have available to me.

So, if you think ahead, you save money. Sure, the non-intel fixtures like a Mystic or a Vertigo aren't going to leave your arsenal, but if you keep buying non-intels, you take money away from buying intels and better fixtures. Yes, no argument, it is a bigger up front expense, but it saves in the long run.

What are you going to do in the meantime to control lights? Plug and unplug?

OK, look at my start:
DMX Operator, 4 Par38's, a Sunray III and an Electra, a DP=DMX-20L, plus a non-ADJ 10-foot truss with T-stands. Already blew away my competition.

Upgrades? More Par38's. After that, the order is hazy. Added a Mystic, a Rover II, Reflex, BarrelFlex, more Par38's, got an Party pack from ADJ which included a strobe, fogger, Double Twist and Triloy. Somewhere in all of that a Vertigo entered the pictures as well as more power and dimmer and swittching packs. Later on, my last non-intel is my Projector 150, which I got in September of 2006. You CAN do a lot with non-intels if you are moderately creative, but at some point you simply outgrow it or just want more. Me? I'm torn. I like the "plug and play" of the Barrelflex, Reflex, Rover II and Electa. They do what I want, look neat and are simple.

Newer purchases have been color changers, movers and wash lights, all with DMX control built in.

I'm not a sales guy. I'm also not a DJ, but a sound production company. My light shows aren't great, but still better than my competition. I offer a premium service, which means more than just a handful of ParCans on a power pack program.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pickett:
What, you turn on two Vertigos and that's it for the night? Man, your audiences must be really easy to please. Can I have their numbers?

Hey, I like my Vertigo too, it's a neat fixture, but as you grow, how do you intend to get things on and off conveniently? Why, add a DMX power pack. And how do you control that? With a DMX controller.

My advise: Think ahead. In my case, the DMX Operator I have is really barely used. By barely used, I mean I am not getting into programming the thing, I'm just using it to cycle lights on and off. But that was in 2001, and this controller is still way too much for me in terms of feature set. I'm just scratching the surface of what I have available to me.

So, if you think ahead, you save money. Sure, the non-intel fixtures like a Mystic or a Vertigo aren't going to leave your arsenal, but if you keep buying non-intels, you take money away from buying intels and better fixtures. Yes, no argument, it is a bigger up front expense, but it saves in the long run.

What are you going to do in the meantime to control lights? Plug and unplug?

OK, look at my start:
DMX Operator, 4 Par38's, a Sunray III and an Electra, a DP=DMX-20L, plus a non-ADJ 10-foot truss with T-stands. Already blew away my competition.

Upgrades? More Par38's. After that, the order is hazy. Added a Mystic, a Rover II, Reflex, BarrelFlex, more Par38's, got an Party pack from ADJ which included a strobe, fogger, Double Twist and Triloy. Somewhere in all of that a Vertigo entered the pictures as well as more power and dimmer and swittching packs. Later on, my last non-intel is my Projector 150, which I got in September of 2006. You CAN do a lot with non-intels if you are moderately creative, but at some point you simply outgrow it or just want more. Me? I'm torn. I like the "plug and play" of the Barrelflex, Reflex, Rover II and Electa. They do what I want, look neat and are simple.

Newer purchases have been color changers, movers and wash lights, all with DMX control built in.

I'm not a sales guy. I'm also not a DJ, but a sound production company. My light shows aren't great, but still better than my competition. I offer a premium service, which means more than just a handful of ParCans on a power pack program.

Back in the days when I first started out none of my customers (friends and families were my customers) just wanted music because back then that is what I had just basic equipment. As soon as I got busier and I had more customers some wanted bigger sound, and now they requested some lights. Most of my clients are low end. They don't like to spend a lot. A package I offer is a silver package which is just music and one set of lights, the vertigo. I don't know anyone that offers at least one set of lights for the price we offer and we can do that with low overhead.

But of course later, I do have to get more lighting and special effects, but not many of my customers want the fancy stuff. I know that most customers would like to have 2 or 3 sets of lights at their party because it gets boring having the vertigos play all night, however when a slow song comes on we shut it off. We have the 2 vertigos set up to a power bar, so we just switch the power bar off. And the other power bar is for my equipment.

In the feature I want to control these non intelligent lights somehow off and on with a controller so I don't have to go up to the power bar. Because if the lights are further from the DJ booth it can be a hassle.

I am thinking of getting the cheaper strobe lights for now and later go with LED (DMX) strobe with a DMX controller when I need it. Now I just don't need. I would like to go with a controller, but it is very expensive. I just don't want to spend all that money.

You're still better off with a DMX controller.

Running from a DJ booth? Are you isolated from the room? That's what is known as a "very bad thing". But let me not assume too much. Keep in mind I am a live sound engineer, and NOT a DJ, so I have to keep things like high SPL, coverage patterns, console EQ, room EQ, monitor EQ and speaker management issues in mind when doing an event, and I never have and NEVER will set up in a DJ booth. I remember one club asking me to do that, so I wheeled in my big Allen & Heath console and it wouldn't physically fit in the room. And if that isn't going to fit on it's wheelbase for moving, how would it lay out for usage? And what about my support equipment? I enjoyed making the club owner look like an idiot that night. He's since gone out of business. Bad place for a club is all I am going to say.

Running DMX can be simple. I carry a 100-foot cable for DMX applications(should I need it). Otherwise, I run it through my 200-foot whip. There are also wireless solutions for DMX as well and since DMX is not bi-directional, it helped keep costs down for those solutions.

So, when you do a show, you turn a power strip on and off when you do or don't need the lights. Sounds like your clients are pinching pennies so hard they are squeezing boogers out of Lincoln's nose. Regardless, having to leave to power cycle lights is really not acceptable. Over my event on the 5th of May(which I got hosed on, thanks to the band cancelling and doing a no-show 90 minutes INTO the event), I had a fixture have a bulb fail, so I had to yank it down and replace the bulb. That's acceptable, especially since my crew couldn't get off their cell phones to at least get the fixture to me. I was able to remove the fixture before an important portion(which didn't need the lights), replace the bulb at FOH, and then replace the fixture after that little scene. Audience can tell something happened, but hey, you do what you gotta do. Better that than the fixture being out the entire night.

ADJ makes a wide variety of controllers in various prices and features. Try to envision where you want to be in 5 years with lights, and buy the controller that appears to fit into that vision. With me, the DMX Operator is still far too much controller that I am barely scratching the surface of 5 years later.

In my case, I am a premier sound company(compared to my main competition, which is typically two boxes on sticks with a cheap amp) and encroaching on the regional big boys. Lights are a second thought and I simply throw it in for free.

My situation is not unlike yours, where people want "CHEAP", and it's hard for me to justify such lowball pricing when a typical wedding means I'm in at anywhere from 1-3PM for a 5-6PM start, for an event that lasts until 9:30 to 11PM and a 2 hour strike. That includes setting up and testing a PA, all that goes with it, and setting the stage, while the band shows up late and expects full pop for a shortened evening of work and they lug almost no gear. Heck, my console alone costs 2-5 times more than what a competing band with all their stage gear, PA and lights ran them(and sometimes you can include their cars in that too).

You might want to look at a remote power system then. ADJ makes some stuff with a serial interface that you can turn off outlets. They also have what appears to be a power-strip type device but is switchable per outlet. Better than an "all on/off" situation. ADJ also has a wireless dimmer pack. While only 4 channels(I think), you could potentially do a lot with that.

If you're going to go with a strone solution, go visit a previous thread I started, where I was asking some questions. You don't wnat a strobe running for LONG periods of time. It's physically hard on the body and eyes and has potential more than other fixtures to cause an epileptic episode, even in people previously undiagnosed. As such, it is NOT advisable for you to use a strobe in your situation unless all switches are close by you. I personally couldn't see me using a strobe for more than 10 seconds at a time, 15 absolute max. I see strobes as an effect light with a specific purpose and time limited application. Sure, you could even run the fixture all night, it won't hurt the fixture, but people will complain if you run it long. Personally, after 2-3 seconds, I don't want to be anywhere near the strobe and I suspect that anyone on stage feels the same way, an the audience will probably be slightly more tolerable.

So, at least you have choices: Keep your AC close, get switchable AC gear(with or without some sort of remote control), wireless remote controlled packs, and a DMX controller solution involving dimmer and power packs as well as DMX-capable fixtures.

Overall, I am raising my rates. Why? Simple: My service offerings are worth it. If people want bad sound at cheap prices, then let them get what they pay for. If they want a world class ssytem run by a world class live sound engineer, then they can call me. I have other businesses to keep funds flowing in. I don't rely on a single path of income. And yes, it is scary being self-employed.

thanks for the info I will keep that in mind. Ya I don't know why it is but a lot of people are real cheap these days. They want something for for cheap. They don't want to purchase our bigger packages we offer. At least I make money from other packages I sell.

You understand, I would like to sell to hirer class clients the intellegent lighjting and DMX controllers and whole works, but I do not get contracts for these types of people. I started awhile ago over 7 years ago, but just the past year I have been doing this business full time. In your business since your in sound you need professional stuff. I do have professional gear, but I don't need $2000 intellegent lighting or CDj-1000s or stuff like that, but on the other hand I don't buy cheap gear from Source or best buy or crap top loading CD players from Gemini. I buy good products brands like Denon DN-D4000 and amps from Alto at 5000W power. Most of my speakers are customed makde or I sometimes rent JBLs if needed. I think in my opinion I will wait on buying the DMX controllers and go with the cheaper stuff. If my clients just want strobe lights and basic lights then thjat is what they get. I always reccomend them to go for more with our gold or platinum packages, but I don't force them, just a suggestion. But definetly I will have a look at those DMX controllers for the future.

Tell me more abotu teh wireless products you were talking about. Any good? Are they reliable. Cause wireless sounds good. I have wireless mics and it's amazing!

ADJ makes a few wireless but simple products. The Aerial Pack 4 is the one I am thinking of. No DMX capability, but at least 4 channels you can switch on and off. Claims 100-foot range. While not really full featured, it at least provides a simple solution for simple lighting. And at a price of $130, it ain't bad.

The other solutions I am looking at are using RF to control DMX, so it's an alternative to cable. Since when I do high profile shows(A-listers), lights are done by a dedicated lighting company, not my lighting stuff, which to be honest, is how I prefer it. My lights are for smaller events, corporate, casuals and local group concerts. Price is about 10 times more, but the reliability factor as well as other issues really come into play. With wireless microphones in my current inventory, I am adding wireless in-ears soon(4-8 channels) and adding wireless DMX, that's a lot of wireless. Plus, couple that with the FCC selling off RF space due to HD television nonsense, my wireless purchases may be curbed for a while. I can always lower my wireless in-ear solutions in favor of wired solutions for a majority of my musicians, who typically don't need to move too much.

ADJ and Chauvet both make some really good and affordable DMX lights.

For example, I got a pair of movers for less than $250 each and I love them. Sorry, Chauvet QSpot150's, but hey, I like them a lot. But the difference of those fixtures where I can entertain a small room with, versus say, ZZ Top, well, I'm going to need a much beefier fixture for those sort of events, and I'm not going in that direction. But, you're not in the ADJ and Chauvet category anymore at that level.

It really depends on what you want. If you're using a strobe, you flat out need some sort of a controller to turn it on and off, no matter how you get it done. That's not a "set and forget" type fixture. The rest is up to you. How do you mount things? T-stand? Truss? Both? Floor? Stacked on speakers? Stage?(front, rear, side, above?) Movers, scanners, color change, gobo control, all sorts of nifty options.

It comes down to what you want to do. Me, my next objective in lights are some more intel-type scanners with DMX control. But before that, I need to program my DMX Operator and start designing shows. Next week, I am setting up my truss in my garage, and going to start designing. I might even put video of some of my creations on my web site. In the meantime, I do have plenty of pictures of past shows and gear.

As far as wireless mics are concerned, I am having issues. First issue was the fact that AudioTechnica was using quarter-wave flexible antennas, and they were easy to block and were too short range. This was resolved by purchasing the Audio Technica Wideband antennas(see my site for pictures), which went a long way, but had it's limitations with 4 channels(the 5th I own is VHF). Distance was improved, but dropouts were still too frequent. So, a Shure distributor/amplifier resolved those issues. Now my problem is the microphones themselves, which using AT's 3000-series, are great when I can get typically a MALE vocalist(or full-voiced female) giving my usable SPL's at the diaphragm. My problem is I work with Asian female singers too much, and they've never had formal vocal training, so I get near zilch to work with, so I of course have to make out the transmitter's pre(which I am fine with), and then bring up the trim way far up on the console's channel. Then when they don't show up for sound check, I have a super loud and clean mix in their wedges based on my voice, but when they come in, it's feedback city since I have to push so much more of so little level, it's asking for problems. The resolve: New transmitters with condenser elements will be purchased for my AT3000's to address this issue. I know this will work since when one of these vocalist stepped over to a Shure SM86 a backing vocalist was using, she cut right through(and both had nearly flat EQ on the console channel), even with lower gain used at the console's pre. While both have different signatures, the SM86 wasn't that much different than the AT3000's dynamic element. I'm pretty much sold on condensers for nearly everything, but you know, sometimes getting a trained rock band on an SM58 is a rockin' thing!

And that's why us sound guys have dozens of mics and always wanting more.

I guess you know your job!
Thanks for the info.

Being in entertainment isn't supposed to be some sort of slacker thing. There are too many unskilled people out there offering bottom-dollar service(at prices to match) and it keeps us hard working guys with large investments(as in more than my house) having to struggle. People have stopped looking for quality and just go with whatever is cheapest and then eat it. I know my stuff, but I can't compete with bottom-feeders.

It doesn't have to be that way.

You can continue to buy cheap lights. I wouldn't stop you. Just have a vision in mind of where you plan to go with this. Why? You'll save money in the long run. Cheap fixtures attached to dimmer packs, while not improving their value, improve their usability. But a dimmer pack require a controller, and both dimmer/power packs and controllers, as you've stated and are aware of, have higher costs involved.

Now, this is just me personally, but if you had a strobe light running a lot, one of two things would happen. I would either complain, or I would leave, or probably both in that order. They hurt my eyes, and so I assume they hurt the eyes of ohers too when excessively used. So, if you're going to go with a strobe, make sure you have some way of turning it off. This isn't a "leave it on for long periods" fixture.

Even in big shows I've seen with strobe usage, the longest I can recall seeing it used is less than 10 seconds at a shot.

So, keep your guests comfort in consideration as well. In the meantime, enjoy those Vertigos, as you will get some usage out of those.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticm:
I am looking to buy strobe lighting...
I have to go with snapshot II because that is all the stores sell here. I am just wondering how many do I need to fill a room with 200-300 people and better up to 500 people. I think 2 strobes would do the job. Now I have 2 vertigo lights and they work perfectly. What do you recommend?

Mysticm, I do not see a way to send a personal message on this forum, or I would've sent it, but if you're still in the market for some strobes, contact me & I might be able to help. I am not a shop or anything like that. I've got 2 very nice, very new strobes to unload! Not 4 days in my possession. Email me below & we'll work something out. Need to do this asap.

laygo3
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