midi control

Well, my recollection of the Korg M3 was the Korm M3RR, which was a scaled down M1/M1R(no sequencer), but obviously Korg is recyclign some names a bit.

Question 1: MyDMX recognizes any and all MIDI channels on any and all interfaces. When programming, make sure nothing you don't want is plugged in.

I would also safely limit myself to 1 bank of MIDI channels, which is often not a problem. In my answer to Question 2, you'll see you can end up with more than enough CC ID's to get it done.

Question 2: MIDI has 128 CC/channel X 16 = 2048 possibiliies, PER BANK. That enough for ya?

Because you TELL MyDMX what CC you're using, you have to TRAIN in. CC data is meant for things like faders. For example, using my Korg nanoKONTROL(which I have to reprogram to emulate a JL Cooper CS102, and then it will work in ProTools, but then I have to reconfigure my training in MyDMX to match the new stuff), I can assign the knobs and faders to DMX channels(faders in MyDMX).

As far as scene triggering, it's honestly BEST if you choose to use note on events. It's much simpler and straight forward because with CC, it looks for of course the MIDI channel, the CC ID and then the value. Too easy to screw up with a controller such as the Korg nanoKONTROL because of the short throw and really, not enough fine control as a result. Still, it's more than adequate for real-time operations. CC data is NOT meant for triggering, it is meant for CONTROL. For those not aware: CC stands for "continuous controller".

MyDMX is only going to listen to what it is trained to listen to. Be it note on messages for scene triggering, or CC's for direct DMX channel controls. You simply tell MyDMX to learn" and then the next thing MyDMX sees in this mode, well, that's what it's trained to listen for. For CC's, it's listening more for the MIDI channel and CC ID rather than value when "learning". But, in learning a trigger, it's looking for EXACT values: channel, CC(as applicable), and value. That's why note-ons are much better for scene triggering. CC's are much better for direct control over the DMX channels.

If you really wanted, you could assign CC controller via multiple MIDI channels to gain direct control over all the DMX channels. Seems a bit much to me, but the desired effects or control are what is important. I don't need that much control at my stage of the game, but I'd like a bit more than I have now. My Korg nanoKONTROL will eventually give me the extra control I desire. I say "eventually" because the big thing preventing this is ME going and getting things configured to go.

It sounds like you want more direct control. AND, you're doing your MIDI work outside the laptop. MyDMX will operate very well under this circumstance. There is no reason to have to "recycle" CC's. I think you may not be clear what CC's are intended for.

Question 3: No, I can't recommend any MIDI interfaces. I am having success with both my MIDISPORT 2X2 USB and my M-Audio Firewire 410 that has a single channel MIDI interface. Likewise, I am having good results with my USB-attached Korg nanoKONTROL until I reprogrammed it to match a JL Cooper CS102, and I haven't redone my work in MyDMX. Generally, anything the OS recognizes should be fine. In other words: darn near everything. My general recommendation is something with a metal housing since I assume it will be mobile. As long as it fits within your budget AND works with what you intend to hook up to it, you'll be fine.

The Korg nanoKONTROL is a USB MIDI device, but lacks MIDI interfaces, just the USB connection. So, it's a "closed-ended" unit and is also USB powered. I have nothing against BUS powered devices. Most MIDI interfaces are powered via firewire or USB these days The high end ones tend to need their own power to operate.

Question 4: I assume you are referring to the B-interface on the back of the M-3, that answer is most likely yes. You'd need to intall the appropriate device drivers from Korg andonce recognized as a MIDI device, then you should be good to go.

Thanx for the info. I hope the MYDMX will learn note on values. The manual only says cc# will trigger scenes. Scene triggering is all I want to do with midi controlled dmx. Either way as long as it works.
Makes sense...16 channels x 128 cc#. That is more than enough cc#. Good thing the MYDMX recognizes all midi channels. So, in using a 16 channel sequencer, with a 16 song show, I just could switch the out going midi channel when needed or even after every song. Very cool.
I do not know about Korg software installations. The research I have done thus far suggests that the MYDMX recognizes any simple midi console. Which should mean whatever can send midi info. The manual is a bit foggy on that one. It merely states that you just have to move a knob, button, etc for the MYDMX to learn it. What it really should say is "so it can learn the cc#" I do know all about continuous control. I can program an RPPR and assign it to a note. When I am playing my Ztar at 8 to 16 notes per second, I will hit the RPPR assigned note and whatever I have stored there will trigger. Whether it is another note with a pitch bend winding up with some serious modulation or even a program change. it frees me up a bit to be doing other things.
Thanx again for the info. It was really helpful as I am just now learning dmx and dmx software.

MyDMX can and does in fact learn both note values and CC controller information.

Here's the way it works, IF you do it right.

You can assign a CC to a DMX channel. It then works off the values the CC is sending. It learns the CC ID and the MIDI channel, NOT the value. MyDMX is doing some sort of 2:1 ratio of MIDI to DMX values.

For scene triggering, it's best to use NOTE ON values, combined with MIDI channel.

As far as changing out per song, no, that's not a good idea. I mean, I could see it, but it's not necessarily the best way to go. I always want to conserve MIDI channels when possible and keep the "wire" as clean and clear of any data not needed. Say, you burn channel 16 for MyDMX triggering and CC data? There ya go then. Just use different triggers per son. No doubt you'll re-use stuff here and there. You have access to a total of 128 scenes per MIDI channel, so that's a LOT, period. And most people will re-use a lot of scenes since washes are washes, no sense in "re-inventing the wheel" each song.

You also have to take into consideration what you're doing with the M3. Do you have full control over what you are SENDING? Let's say you use your idea of 1 MIDI channel/song, and then you change to song 3, but you have something that uses the same MIDI note value from song 1..... oops. NO, not a good idea.

With MyDMX, you can just as quickly assign a note on for scene triggering on channel 1 as channel 10 or whatever. You tell MyDMX to "learn" and it sits and waits. Next thing it hears becomes the trigger. It stores the MIDI channel and note number.

MyDMX doesn't directly recognize anything. It merely listens to the port for input, and then if it "hears" something, it responds to it if it's been told to, be it CC data or scene triggers. It's not the best way to do it, but MIDI is low bandwidth, so it's not a big deal. Behringer makes some knob and fader consoles. I got MyDMX to respond to my JL Cooper CS 102, but I'd rather save the expensive controller for my dedicated ProTools systems/applications.

The nanoKONTROL is very "soft". You can assign any value to any control in it. This is why I set it up to emulate a JL Cooper CS102 because out and about using my Macbook Pro, it is a easy to carry controller and doesn't require extra goodies(MIDI interface, power, MIDI cables). Works just as well using MyDMX. In my case, I have 4 banks of 9 knobs and faders, giving me enough control to do things on the fly.

Also, taking the "controller" out of the situation, I know I could assign the 4 CC sliders on my Alesis QS-8 to DMX channels in MyDMX. I'm not gonna, but just saying I COULD.

Just really depends what you need to or want to do. You could do your show entirely off sequenced CC data, but that's a LOT to load onto the wire, will cause lag and delay, and with so much of that 32.1K bandwidth eaten up, you're gonna choke it here and there. I'd say between some CC data and note on triggering, you'd be good.

For me, using the nanoKONTROL, if I wanted to or needed to, I could wrangle manual control over certain fixtures live and on the fly. It's mostly the "gee, this sure would be nice" at the moment. Since I'm busy doing audio, it's not something I personally would be doing.

Keep having fun. Now it's time to start connecting things up and really making a mess! This is when it really starts to get fun.

It is good news that MYDMX understands note on data. That would allow for a lot of scenes. The manual said that a "show" can contain 255 scenes. Some of those scenes will have "steps" in them. I recognize the value of "steps" when dealing with scanners. Not sure about "steps" when dealing with a spot or a wash. The manual also said that the number of "shows" is limited only by the computer memory. Not sure if that means a different set of 255 scenes per show. Still waiting for ups to get this software to me. But things are looking promising. I tried Chauvet Obey 40. Easy to learn and use. Programmed lots of scenes. No where near enough of what I need. I only learned of dmx 3 days ago. Read a lot and saw a lot of youtube vids since then. My planned applications are not DJ in style. But rather acting. Moving lights will mostly not be swaying but rather moving with planned musician movements. If the vocalist walks back to the drummer in between songs, I plan to make lights follow her. The lights themselves will act. There are so many swaying light shows now. Don't need another. So it will be the extremely advanced musical skills that has priority. Lights will be used to enhance personalities instead of walls and dance floors. I think there is going to be a lot of planned movement between musicians and lights. Which means a whole lot of scenes. I hope that MYDMX will handle this challenge. But I am sure it will do more than a stand alone dmx controller.
Thanx again for your time and info. It has helped.

With the right "preparation", and based on how you use CC information, you might not even need to deal with scenes, not to say making scenes wouldn't be a good thing.

And a single scene could be made up of enough steps that it could cover a song all unto itself.

As far as your comment on steps needed in a wash scene, that's kind of an "opinion" thing. For the most part, I agree with you. But, consider this, I have Chauvet Intimidator Colors, which are a wash light with a color wheel. I also have Chauvet Q-Spot 150's, which are moving head yokes with color wheels and gobo wheels. Here is an instance where making steps in a scene can work out.

First off, you program your scene as you want it. Let's just say for the sake of argument, I need BLUE, and LOTS of it. I'm gonna wash the scene so blue, it couldn't be more blue. OK, put all 32 par 38's to blue(OK, so that's 8 of them, my bad!), program my 8 64 LED Pros to blue only, dimmer up all the way. My 2 Color Fusions, yup, blue all the way. Now, I also need my spots blue, which ALSO have a color wheel AND my Q-Spot 150's and Intimidator Color. I don't want people to see the color wheel changing.

So, I make step 1 the "scene" as I need it to be in the end. I copy this step in the scene. Go back to Step 1: turn off the bulb in the Intimidator Color and spots, and shutter full on with the Q-Spot 150s. Put a half second between step 1 and step 1, now nobody will see the color wheels change.

I know, abstract. But you're already dealing with an abstract.

My suggestion: Honestly, I don't like hardware sequencers. It's mostly since I like using a computer instead. I'd say witg your planed complexity, a low-end laptop(not a junker) running your music production software of choice so you have full access to MIDI features, would be the way to go. With a MIDI interface on that laptop and another MIDI interface on your MyDMX laptop, you can play your M3 as well as sequences, plus have fully DMX control. This would be a good application.

My only warning comes from being so tightly sequenced that it can really suck the life out of a show or event. But it depends on the act too. If you're doing some "dramatic" thing and a fixed set/show, then you're good to go. I don't deal with bands who need or want such rigidity. They may use fixed sets but they don't want to be locked into anything like that. I can see things both ways. It all depends on the act and what they are trying to accomplish. Niether answer is right or wrong UNLESS you impose the wrong idea set on the band.

MyDMX is up to the challenge. Are you? Sounds like you are. Get cracking on the 3D Visualizer. build your virtual stage. You can then design your shows.

Sounds good...The overly tight scene programming is food for thought. I humbly agree in regards to hardware controllers. (Seeing how new I am to this) It is kinda nice having 30 banks of 8 scenes each at a click of a button. But MYDMX does it with a mouse so it's cool. Looked at usb/midi interfaces. The MOTU fastlane or micro lite looks solid. I am guessing that since the MYDMX manual downplayed the complexity of the external midi controller by calling it "simple", MYDMX will recognize the MOTU without the aid of driver software. That idea of running one scene for an entire song through the use of steps is interesting. It would ease the scene load. Mainly why I want midi triggering is automated tempo sync. But still, It does sound like an addition approach. Thanx.
I have not seen, as of yet, anything referencing "universes". There are 4 of them, right? Are they additional sets of 512 fixture channels? If that is true, wow!, one could light an airstrip with this thing.

Let's back up a tiny bit.

Unlike something like ProTools, or Cubase or Sonar, MyDMX doesn't really recognize or acknowledge the MIDI interface. While something as simple, cheap and durable as a MIDISport 2X2(bought in 2002, been with me through Win98, SE, ME, 2K and XP, sorry, no Vista!!), MyDMX isn't that complicated. It merely listens to whatever MIDI information is running through the system bus, regardless of where it is coming in from.

Basically, if the OS is aware that there is an MIDI interface connected to it, MyDMX can look at it. You don't have to tell MyDMX anything. MyDMX is aware that "there is possibility for MIDI" and that's good enough. Since MyDMX isn't active in engaging the MIDI interface, it behaves differently.

So, if you want to go with a MOTU unit, you should be able to use it just as readily as something much simpler and less expensive. I've never been a fan of MOTU hardware, but that's a big throwback legacy issue to when MOTU was just a pain in the butt and went out of their way to be difficult and I've never forgiven them. Still, let your application requirements be your guide. Remember, you're going to need at least TWO MIDI interfaces: One on the machine running MyDMX and another on the sequencing computer.

Now here is something you brought up about tempo sync. MyDMX does NOT respond to MIDI clock or MIDI Time Code(with or without SMTPE). This may become an issue if you're going scene-based triggering in MyDMX. Hear me out. When you program a scene in MyDMX, you always have the choice of using or NOT using a fade to transition between scenes. This can make switching look relatively cool an "seamless", but this may inhibit what you're trying to do. of course, you don't have to use a fade. But, fade is in time, not in time code. Faster sequences will NOT make it do the fade faster.

Another option might be to manually transition via CC information the various DMX channels using your master scheme of direct control in the sequencer. While complex, this solution does give you total control. As in, if you slow down or speed up, the CC data output by the sequencer will speed up/down as you adjust your sequence's tempo, hence properly time adjusting the CC data. This can guarantee perfect sync. Granted, it is more work and YES, it means potential bottlenecks and slowdowns on that MIDI cable, but that is assuming you're loading a ton of stuff on there. Lots of CC data will quickly load up the wire.

Universe: in DMX, this is the assembly of all your lighting and their associated channels, into a single cable's worth of instructions, not to exceed 512 unique DMX channels. Some higher end consoles support multiple universes, as does even the Elation software product, Compu Live. MyDMX, in order to be cost-effective, only supports one universe at a time. This is obvious when you look at the MyDMX dongle and note that there is just the single DMX output.

In DMX, there are no rules prohibiting the duplication of channels. So, I could take my 8 64 LED Pros and just address them to the same channels and they'd all act exactly like each other. Since these are 7-channel units, I have the optin of using up to 56 channels(addressing them differently) or just 7 total channels by addressing them the same. This is a good way to "cheat" without necessarily givng up anything.

MyDMX is relatively simple in regards to MIDI. It's not picky and SHOULD work with just about anything. My MIDISport 2X2 is USB, the MIDI on my M-Audio Firewire 410 is the firewire bus. If I can finally get that used Digi 002 surface with PT LE 7.4.2, I'd also have MIDI on the firewire port once again(with cool motorized faders).

Going back to using a lighting controller, such as a DMX operator:
Even with sequencing to get your "tempo sync", like with MyDMX, there is no implementation of clocking. If you have the fader for fade set too high or too low, it can alter your fade times. While the computer may say "OK, go here NOW" and the scene fade fader is at 2 seconds, well, the controller will get the message, but take a full 2 seconds to fully transition from one scene to the next. You also have to give things up like moving scenes(can't be done) because there are no steps. The fader setting may not be perfect for all songs and is not accurate enough for reliability in such an environment.

Neither solution is perfect. Some have more strengths than others. I think myDMX might be the better directions.

Now, using the free download on the ADJ site, you can start playing with MyDMX. The only thing you give up is being able to control lighting since you won't have the dongle/DMX interface box. Even so, you can fully play with MIDI triggering and even the 3D Visualizer and start designing your show. Should you wish to buy the dongle, then you only need to plug it in and launch DMX and you're up and running. Demo mode basically means "no interface". The software will not time out or expire. This is especially important for REAL light designers(like, not me!) because they can design their shows from the bus, truck, airplane or where-ever, then when they get to the gig, plug in, and rock and roll.

My suggestion for using 1 scene with many many steps for a song does have its drawbacks. You're going to have to adjust your timings of steps to hit your spots. This COULD be time consuming. Any mistakes and adjustments will impact things further down the line. If you just take it "one at a time" though, you should be able to pull it through. The key is a stopwatch with a split function so you can measure approximate time between steps. This just means work. Sounds like you're not opposed to work.

I'm just looking into going software based and trying to see if this will do what I want it to Midi wise. I'm pretty sure it will, but I have some questions.

My current band light set up is a Opeartor 192 midi to a Macbook running Digital Performer. DP send midi notes to the Operator 192 and a Roland Octapad can also trigger the 192. Most of our show is sequenced drums, and some are played live so the lights are synced in the computer, and trggered with the Octopad when there is a drummer.

We are only running 8 fixtures, 4 ADJ PRO 64 LED's, 2 Performance Scan 250's and 2 DJ SCAN 250 EX's. So it's not a huge show, it may grow though in the future.

Basically they way I run midi now is all Midi notes. The Operator is set up that there are 8 scenes that are assigned to midi notes 12-19 , and 32 banks assigend to midi notes 20-49. So that gives me 256 scenes while only using 40 midi notes, pretty cool way to set it up and the only DMX controller I could find set up this way.

This set up is working great, the only thing I want to change is to be able to add more movement and control to the scanners, circles, sweeps, figure 8 etc.

What I'm looking to do is add a PC Laptop, and basically have that replace the Operator 192. Can I set up scenes within myDMX and trigger the scenes by note number? Can 1 scene contain scanner movement from the effect generator?

Also, I don't think mydmx would be set up as banks of scenes so would I be limited to the 128 midi channels, so in a sense 128 scenes? That actually would probably be enough, I'm maybe using 30 right now for our whole show.

Also, how stable is myDMX? I can't have lock ups and crashes, that means no lights and a dark stage. Is this based on what I get for a PC laptiop? What can I get away with spec wise? Can I get a cheap 300-400 Dell with a lot ram?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Chris Anderson