Lighting for new dance club

Step 1 was smart: you contacted a lighting designer who can hang trussing or fixtures. Excellent.

Step 2: start pouring through the ADJ site and find lights you like. Then ask more questions. You're going to want to control them, so dimmer packs and DMX software and/or hardware will be necessary.

Step 3: INSIST on DMX cablig, not XLR. Don't let some idiot contractor bully you around on this saying "It will work". It will work, it just might not work well. The costs are a wash almost. The price differences are trivial at best, and sometimes it's not even a contest.

Step 4: Don't rush. Rushing will cause you to make stupid choices.

Lastly: 600 square feet isn't that big, but still, what are your dimensions. It helps. The ceiling height was a big help though

What would also help us is if you post a few pictures of the dance floor area. and the ceiling. you can use a free photobucket account and just get the IMG code and paste it in a post.
www.photobucket.com Welcome to the forums
Sincerely,

Like you I wanted to replace all the lights in my venue and after searching around we decided to use X Scan LED plus and X Move LED plus.

These are coupled up to the MyDMX control panel which is a doddle to use and it's so simple the cat can do it. You won't need any programming skills and everything is easy to set up.

We had a light show up and running within ten minutes using 16 lights. I know some poeple prefer the 5 pin cables to the XLR's but we found either will do.

The hardest thing was climbing the ladders!

Watching YouTube videos of the X-Move LED Plus and the X-Scan LED Plus, I don't see a real difference between the two. How would you describe the difference between the two in terms of the light or effect they achieve?

ask the lighting designer for some ideas.
first he might be able to get you some good prices or maybe some used gear.
Also ask him about securing the lights, maybe truss it not the way to go. I have seen a lot of clubs waste most of their budget on truss and end up with a couple lights on it.



Minnesota Sweet 16 DJ
Minnesota School Dance DJ
Minnesota DJ Services

There is no right single way to go. It is true that trussing CAN be expensive, as well as needing to be properly hung and/or installed. Trussing is a great way to go if you need to hang lights over the floor and want to bring them down from the ceiling. I've also seen lights hung from brackets attached to beams as well. Cheaper than trussing and nothing wrong with this, except that it can be a bit harder for cable management Not impossible, just requies more work.

One thing that many people don't stop to take into consideration when hanging lights is maintenance. Youve' got to get UP there to clean the lights, replenish fluids, change bulbs, replace fuses, change addresing... The cheap way is a ladder. Good solution, cost effective, just requires getting the right ladder for the job.

Catwalks aren't practical for this application, and I think getting some sort of genie-lift just isn't good use of funds for this small of an environment.

But back to trussing: Depending on what you want, Global Trussing can provide you with all sorts of shapes and configurations to make your trussing not only functionla and practical, but really cool looking as well. If you're spending the money on trussing, then this won't be a big deal.

And again, DO NOT use XLR cabling, use DMX cabling. It comes in both 3 and 5 pin varieties, and cable and adaptors are cheap. Deal with that later, that's not critical at this stage of the game. Pick your fixtures, then you can worry about any wiring issues.

Here's the proposal.

4 Vizi LED Spots
8 P56P LED
2 Tri Phase
2 Fusion FX Bar
1 Triple Flex
1 Revo IV
8 LED Beam Scan
2 Jellyfish LED
1 Haze HZ-300

(Also a Magic 260 and Branch 4 Splitter)


Remember, the dance floor area is approx. 600 feet and the fixtures will be hung approx. 14-16 feet overhead. With that in mind, I'm wondering how much area these fixtures will cover. I probably need to cut down on this proposal because of budgetary constraints. What would you recommend?

Also, there are no laser lights planned. Do you think that's a mistake?

I won't comment on your lightinv choices. Well, let me comment a little bit: I really don't know much about all the fixtures you want. I will say your plans on using multiples for many of them is quite wise for coverage purposes. And as you might have read, I really like the Antari HZ-300, so I'm sure you'll love it too.

As far as controller choices, I feel MyMX will be a better option. You can program more movement with the movers, and more complexity with the LED washes. I do suggest the ADJ 64 LED Pro though, but make sure your P56 LED can has a 7-channel mode and you'll be good.

Suggestions: While I'm not a trend follower or trend setter, it seems to me lasers are a high-expectation item, so it might be worth researching and getting some recommendations on. I'm in a similar situation as I need a laser or two, but in my case, funds MUST go to different lights for a while.

Also, another suggestion, perhaps some LED UV fixtures? Just something I expect in a club, but hey, this is more of a "gee, neat idea" category.

Again, a diagram or photos of the dance floor would help. The space helps, but a picture helps even more.

Jason,

I also second Chris' recommendation of using MyDMX software as your controller. I went from the ADJ Operator Pro to myDMX and it was so much easier to use and program. I cannot express how much better software is to work with, compared to a manual controller. Hands down, go with a software controller, it will save you lots of time, headaches and high blood pressure at a minimum. MyDMX is priced right and has tons of cool features too! I also would take the advice of insisting on using DMX data cable over XLR.

Good luck,
Ric

Not trying to knock one of our own products but i wouldn't out a magic 260 in a club environment. My dmx all the way.
Sincerely,

I've heard the MyDMX is subject to glitches, I guess basically because the computer can be finicky, not necessarily the software. Have any problems with that?

Well, let me relay my experiences:

Yes, MyDMX has been a bit iffy at times, but typically when I'm having to press my luck on stuff. My first event using myDMX flopped and I had to fail over to my DMX Operator. If I just rebooted, I would have resolved the issue. I also had MyDMX wonk out at me after making live changes to a show before the show, and I assumed it saved(it didn't) before exiting. Rebooted and come showtime, I find out scenes didn't hold the changes.

Other than that, I just say don't boot with the dongle plugged in and you should be fine. It has been very reliable for me, to the point where I'm not carrying the DMX Operator anymore. I will have it at a show I have coming up, but that's because I'm going to be carrying a lot of extra gear to make that event happen, and it just so happens the rack the DMX Operator is bolted into will have to make that trip along with the other gear that will be living in there.(I have to use 2 5000-watt PA's, 10+ channels of monitors, 4 IEM channels, 8-10 wireless channels and, and a smaller PA, and 2 stages of lighting).

In general, I recommend dedicated a machine for a single focused purpose. But this is coming from a heavy background in touring sound and production. Chances are you won't need a battle-hardened machine for MyDMX. Just exceed minimum specs and you'll do fine. If you want, you can add-on MIDI controllers for easier access.

Any software can freak out. Any OS can get corrupted. With so many things that ca go wrong, it's difficult to point the finger to any one finite and exact thing.

I still recommend MyDMX.

My needs are moving in a direction where I'm outgrowing the capabilities of MyDMX. Even so, MyDMX ain't going to leave my rig as it's still easy to use and let's others I work with have fast access to a lot of lightig capability with minimal effort and fast learning curve. I'm not knocking the MyDMX product. The MyDMX product is designed for clubs, DJ's and small companies needing something affordable, feature rich and easy to use. Unless you're doing complex shows, I really can't say you need Compu. By going with MyDMX, you can do complex movements and color sweeps and other things you simply can't do with a Magic260. Considering what you'd pay for get a similarly equipped lighting console in comparison to MyDMX, you can't touch the price of MyDMX.

Why don't you go download MyDMX and start playing with it. It's free. You have to pay to get the hardware interface to really use it. The 3D Visualizer is gonna be your new best friend!

Jason,

I have had a couple of problems / issues with MyDMX during a couple shows, but for the most part it has worked extremely well. It would lock up on me...sometimes it was an easy fix...other times I had to re-boot the entire computer during a set and in the middle of a song when the lights just went black...bad timing and everyone knew I was having an issue. But I noticed 2 things. First, this was only happening at one bar and other members of the band were experiencing problems with their electrical gear too. I added a power conditioner and have not had a problem since. The other thing I learned is that MyDMX does not like it when your computer goes into a hybernate mode. For instance, during a set break I would leave the console and step outside for a breath of fresh air for about 15-20 minutes. My computer would have gone into hybenation since there was no input and lock up somewhere down the road...30 min to 2 hours later. I fixed that by changing my screen saver value from 2 to 30 mins and I swing by every few minutes to give the mouse a wiggle to keep it awake just in case. Other than those 2 issues it has been a dream to work with. I have also thought about getting a second netbook and have MyDMX up and running during my shows. If my main freezes, locks up or just freaks out...all I have to do is unplug the dongle and plug it into the back up computer and no one would even notice I had a problem. I hope the info helps ya!

Ric

It is recommended to turn ALL power saving functions and features OFF when using my dmx.
Sincerely,

Yup. Run MyDMX on a laptop configured to behave as a desktop: Disable everything in regards to pwor savings for sure, as well as any USB power-down type stuff and maybe even go ahead and disable the screen saver too.

This is true for dealing with video and audio as well, including DJ-type apps(which rarely get the chance to go into a power savings mode anyways because DJ's are almost constantly on it when they are doing their job)

You may want to go into the bios and disable some power savings stuff in there as well.

Trust me, after using Martin LJ, the glitches with MyDMX are minor. I used to run it on some very old Hewlett Packard desktops but what is fun is when you Windows 7 with a Touch screen! All those sliders just move with your fingers and selecting the scenes are a breeze. Incidently my MyDMX installed strait on the W7 platform without any problems as the compatability manager kicked in and sorted out the install for me.

There is a club near us that has just spent £6000 on a controller and pc and it's not as good as our set up that cost half the price and ours look better.

Also someone asked the difference between X Scans and X Moves. The big difference in that the X Move can rotate the head 360 degrees and is good for setting up stage lighting whereas the X Scans can only move depending on the rotation of the mirror.

One other issue someone raised about the X Scan/Move LED plus was life. Well ours are left on for hours and never get hot. They're easy to clean just by taking the top moveable lense out and wiping with a duster. Try to not place the units near a smoke machine either. Also see the other posting about the "RED" gels! Mine now works a treat!

Light Jockey simply isn't worth the cost for what it does. You are much better off with either Hog PC or CompuLive. Hog PC, however, is a bit of a hog when it comes to computing power required. It can, however, be upgraded with wings and things making basically a fully functioning, full size Hog 3. However, rigs like that should only, and I mean only, run Hog PC and nothing else on them because of compatibility issues. I have seen a few rack mount PC setups for them. And to get the most out of it, you will need a setup with wings and touch screens.

So for the money, probably much better spent on CompuLive or the new CompuCue and CompuShow. Doesn't offer wings and things, but wasn't designed with you have them in mind either thus making it easier to run without them.

I'm gonna chime in here, because I can.

First, in support of statements by Serra Ava:
While I have NO specific information on the PC Hog software, he brings up a VERY valid point I've been making when it comes to us "entertainers" in regards to computers: While it may seem a waste of money to use a compouter for ONE purpose, its the best way to go. Having a machine optimized to run ONE application only is the preferred way to go for touring. Granted, this isn't practical for 99.9% of the people hanging around here, but it's how we do things when we tour. I can't afford to do this sort of thing because it's MY money and I ain't bleeding money, so I have to have my machines run as much as I can. This is how the rest of us do things anyways! But if performance and reliability are of the utmost importants, specialized computers are the way to go and you'd spend the money if it's that critical(because you're making big money at it as well).

In regards to Skinhead:
I have no experience with Light Jockey software, only MyDMX and now Compu Show. I will say that I like Compu Show, but this software is currently way over my head. It's quite a learning curve, but I don't see it replacing MyDMX because they have different functions and mindsets. Compu Show is definately going to be here soon for me. Similarly, I think Compu is going to get another sale off me for a mid-grade package for more improvisational shows. But I digress a bit.

Skinhead talks about his much cheaper rig being more functional and better than a more expensive rig. I can relate, as my "cheap" sound system that costs more than $150K has been outperforming many "seemingly larger and claiming(and in some cases are) more expensive systems. How much of this is operator skill and/or beter understanding and utilization of exisiting resources? I know in my case, both are valid and why I win. So, someone with great skill and creatibity can do a LOT with seemingly less. This is a good thing. But, at some point, we have to admit that perhaps sometimes what we're using isn't sufficient to get the job done.

MyDMX is a great product. For the money, I really don't think anything can touch it. I know there is free stuff out there, but you get what you pay for(some of it is pretty cool), but your support options are shot to crap. I also really like the MyDMX product. Even so, sometimes it's not the right product for the job, and only business can tell you if it's right or not. I'm using MyDMX for a large theatrical type production, with which MyDMX has behaved very well and done a fantastic job, but MyDMX isn't designed for this type of job, and Compu Show is. So, while I've gotten the job done, I COULD do the job better.

No, MyDMX won't be leaving my rig, it will just be used for different jobs, like live shows, raves and the like. Compu Show will be for my sync'ed type shows.

Though this is definitely digressing from the original topic, I'll add my comments too.

Yes, as with most things in this industry, you generally get what you pay for. Certain things may not be worth the money, others are worth much more.

The fact is with most advanced light consoles today is that they're all pretty much computers in one way or another. Whether you supply your own computer with a software solution with add-on hardware or have a computer integrated in a purely hardware solution, a lot of the internal components are the same. Pop the hood of a Grand MA and it's pretty much a computer underneath. A lot of hardware desks even utilize an external processing rack (such as a Strand 300 or ETC Obsession II) The major difference between a software package (with hardware wings) and a hardware desk is the presence (or absence) of a background operating system.

In my opinion the software based solutions are slightly less reliable simply due to the fact that consumer laptops degrade in quality each year. With hard drives that can fail and viruses that can corrupt registries, there are a lot more ways to screw up a software console vs a hardware desk. Even with a lot of nice software solutions available *most* pros (on tour) still use hardware desks because of their higher reliability. Now I have had a few hardware desks lock up on me before, but it happens, though rare. I just prefer the desk to have its own internal OS and software so that it remains stable (though certain consoles such as the ET Marquee run Windows XP embedded. You can even get Internet Explorer on it!). I like Windows, and think it's generally stable until the internet and malware mess it up, which is almost inevitable sooner or later unless it's a purpose built PC.

The major advantage to PC based solutions are the 'bang to buck'. You get A LOT more features using software than you'd get on a comparably priced hardware desk. I have experience with (and personally own) both hardware and software solutions, and would have to say that unless you have *at least* $5000 to spend on a console, you're best off going with a software package, but it sure doesn't hurt to keep a simple DMX Operator laying around 'just in case'.