Lighting for a one man band?

Take a look at the H20 LED. Always a nice effect.
Sincerely,

Actually I have considered the H2O. It would be awesome since my gigs are always at beach bars.

Thing is, it strikes me as being somewhat 'single purpose', i.e. mainly for slow songs. Not so great for rock & roll. I just don't have enough in my budget to buy a single effect for the 4-5 slow songs I play during a night.

Thus why I'm hoping to find a (non-DMX) LED light that would 'audio-magically' operate slowly for soft/slow tunes as well as be able to to kick it up a notch for fast tempo music.

I'm coming to the conclusion such an animal doesn't exist in the market(You listening ADJ?)

I would not look for a single light to cover all needs since that can get "old" quick. I recommend several lights that can be mounted on a single light stand. Two for faster, more energetic, songs and something like the H20 for the slow. You can control them (on & off) with a lighting foot switch.

I agree that you shouldn't try to use a "one light fits all" solution. It will get old fast, and even with DMX control, again, you need to break it up. It really depends how many you want, what kind of variety you want or need, and what kind if budget do you have in mind. If you want to spend a little bit more, I'd say get a couple of Profile Panel sor Mega Panels to light yourself up too.

You also need to think about things like coverage area too. Power draw concerns are sort of becoming a problem to not worry about so much thanks to ADJ coming up with LED equivalents of old fixtures and tons of new designs that have been LED only. Since you want as few as possible, you want large coverage areas I would think.

Your research is correct: Nobody is making a "one light fits all" fixture. You'll want some sort of solution involving a few fixtures and perhaps some control. ADJ makes some cost effective control options to check out as well. I also don't think it's worth ADJ's time to develop such a fixture. While it may seem good from a performer's point of view, especially perfomers who do want to simplify their set-ups as much as possible. But, audiences don't like such simplicity as they get bored easily.

Good points all. I'm not looking for just one light to do everything. Actually I'm definately leaning toward a couple Tri-Gems and an Aggressor Tri-LED. I think those (in conjunction with the PAR's I'm installing in my current beach bar) will add a little 'pizzazz' to my act. And yes, I'm looking for a foot switch to select the LED F/X's (e.g. Tri-Gems only, Tri-Gems + Aggressor, Aggressor only) for some variety.

But what I was pointing out is it seems stepper motors in current Non-DMX sound activated fixtures operate at one speed. fast

It would be nice to have lights where the stepper motor speed was a function of the sound activated 'beat trigger'. i.e. the sound activation circuit counts the BPM (actually just the time between 'triggers') and adjusts the stepper motor rotation speed accordingly.

Or, even simpler, when the 'beat count' (or time between beat triggers exceeds a certain threshold, say, equals 80 BPM) the light goes into a 'cycle thru LED colors and 2 RPM rotate' mode

It wouldn't be to create a 'one size fits all' light. Rather as a relatively simple improvement on what current lights are capable of.

There are other music genres than Disco/Trance

Well, if your complaint(and a valid one) is about motor speed on non-DMX fixture, well, that's pretty much spot on what you said. They tend to move at a fixed speed, and yes, it tends to be on the fast side. But, that's what you get when you buy a fixture that has been stripped down(or not designed with DMX in mind). They set it to a speed they feel is more oriented towards upbeat DJ stuff, and that's that. You have to understand the market that these are oriented to.

The sound activation does NOT count BPM, it is merely acting to bass frequency information, mainly bumps, booms and thumps, so the bass and kick drum and other lower percussiont transients can definately trigger sound activation. If you want bpm type stuff, you're going to have to do progamming in something like Compu. BPM detection requires something far more advanced that what many people think is needed to implement, because it's not simply trying to count things and then tempo adjust. It's why MIDI tempo maps evolved in part, but that was also a funtion of DAW trying to re-fit MIDI sequencing into recorded audio tracks.(it's supposed to go the other way around, just so you know). Without being able to receive clocking information(do any lights accept MTC?), it's really impossible(or perhaps a metronome with a click out). What you want would definately be a cost-adding element. Not a bad concept, but it can also be handled through DMX controlling via software solutions.

Your concept may SEEM simple, but in reality, it's not simple at all.

As far as footswitches there are a fair amount of footswitches that can work with the various Elation and ADJ software products. People are expressing success with the Behringer FBC1010(I think that's the model), and there are other footswitches available.'

ADJ also offers a footswitch controller that goes to a dimmer pack, but it basically gives you 4 channels of on/off control and is oriented more towards cans. There's probably more functionality, but that's all I can recall. Now, you can go with a hardware controller such as the DMX Operator, and then have some MIDI controll, but you'll need to map your scenes(bank/scene to hard number) to MIDI notes for reference, and then see what scenes you can and cannnot use based on MIDI notes your controller is able to be programmed to.

For wide coverage I was thinking stuff like the Revo-series might be good for consideration as well.

Not complaining... Like you say, you get what you pay for. And it's my problem I don't have the bandwidth to manage DMX so I have to work with what I can get.

I know sound activation doesn't really count BPM, but it could and relatively easily.

To keep costs at a minimum I suspect ADJ (etc.) are using common programmable controllers (like a PIC micro-controller) in their lights. If so, the controller is fully capable of adjusting stepper speed in real time (and much more).

1. You have audio input
2. it senses 'bumps & thumps'
3. When it senses a 'bump', start counting.
4. If count exceeds whatever number equals 750 msec (80 BPM) then
5. reduce stepper pulse frequency by X%
6. else continue on

We're probably talking <50 bytes of code and a register so unless ADJ (etc.) is using every last byte of ROM it actually wouldn't add any hardware cost.

So I suspect it is more marketing than engineering that is keeping such features from being available.

Don't mind me... Just being Mr Smartypants

No, a fixture can't read BPM easily.

How would you implement this? I mean, are you going to key off the kick drum? What about a kick on the up of a beat and the down of a beat? Implementing such "tempo" would require an "intelligence", which is going to cost. The best bet is to feed it a clock.

Then what if you're playing and the bass and kick aren't in sync? What frequencies do you want to run high/low bandpass filters on? What constitutes a valid thump/bump? Since audio input is not being done on a dedicated line/instrument input connection, it renders the rest essentially useless. If you were to perhaps put in a resistor to knock the incoming instrument level down to microphone level so you're not overloading the microphone input, then since you're at it, you replace the microphone input with a 1/4" mono T/S jack(for convenience purposes), then you wouldn't need to do anything else. But you still need to feed it a valid input singal, that even a series of beeps can work to establish "tempo", but it won't do squat for the motors speeds.

But using the microphone input requires a lot more intelligence because there's too many variables to account for that could alter tempo.

Also, this would screw it up:

Pattern, fairly typical:

Kick on 1 and 3, snare 2 and 4.

Measures 1 is straight, but on the 4th 16th of beat 4 on measure 4 leading into beat 1 of measure 3(repeat of measure 1), there is another kick. While hat is keeping steady quarters, bass is playing something complimentary but isn't exactly on a straight 1/2/3/4 pattern, mixing quarter and 8th notes. What thump do we key off? Kick with the lead-in on that measure screws up tempo.

So, again, unless you're sending something you have control over and in a way you can guarantee that's all the light is listening to, the rest is basically moot.

Also, motors moving to tempo gets annoying after a bit. Effective in certain parts, but overall, not so nice.

I'm not saying your idea isn't valid, but your concept is over simplified if we're talking "reality". With thumps possibly coming from anywhere, including people talking, clapping and bouncing into walls, stage bumps and more, the microphone has to be removed from the equation because it will screw things up. My concept of replacing the mic with an input jack saves costs, and gives you what you want if you can feed it a source signal to listen to. I'm sure there are metronme devices that work off tap tempo that will generate an output signal.

But just because you're not adding to hardware costs, you want to add to software costs, which will require more than just the gross-oversimplifation you suggest.

The problem with going DMX is that isn't not a time-based protocol, so there's nothing in the protocol I could find in regards to time data.

Depending on how you do things, despite your objections to DMX, you're most likely going to hve to use in some manner anyways. The ADJ FB400 is a DMX foot controller, although it only handles 4 channels.

Your biggest problem really is there are so many ways to address what you want to do, it may take you some time to narrow it down. That's a rather nice change, rather than the problem being not enough choices.

Got a couple questions "West",
1. will you be firing the FX lights into the crowd/dancefloor?
2. does the venue(s) have ceilings? You mentioned beach bar and all the ones I've seen are outdoors.

As far as variety of "action" and movement is concerned. the REVO 3 and REVO 4 are amazing. The new REVO Rave should be considered as well.
I already use the REVO 3 pointed at the ceiling. IMO, its patterns aren't as effective on a dancefloor but on a ceiling it totally "wakes up" the dancefloor mood and appeal. To finalize my move to 100% LED, I'll either get a Revo 4or two Revo Raves for the dancefloor since their patern variety seems almost unending. These are ACTION lights not to be used for mellow songs. Use an H20 for that or a SLOW rotating moonflower.
For a live band though, I'd be looking seriously at wash lights. Consider getting 2 Colorburst 8's, or Mega Bar LED's.

I think you guys missed my point.

1st I have no objection to DMX at all. In fact, I really would like to use DMX, if for nothing else than to have some scenes/chases for the PAR's.

Alas, as a OMB as it is I have to do it all. I just don't have the bandwidth to be the MC, performer, soundman AND be the lighting guy as well. Plus, I'm budget constrained

So I'm keeping it simple. I just purchased two Tri-GEM's and an Aggressor. Both are sound activated only (non-DMX) with the added benefit of turning off when no sound is present. I still plan to 'control' them via foot switches so I can select between the Tri-Gems, the Aggressor or both.

Back to my idea though. I wasn't suggesting it would be simple to control a servo in time with a tempo. Nor was I suggesting that the fixture determine WHAT the BPM is. Indeed, for all the reasons all have mentioned that would be complex. Just determine the "BPM" (as defined by whatever 'bumps & thumps make the sound activation work now) crossed some pre-defined threshold.

i.e., that sound activation be 'intelligent' enough such that if the various bumps & thumps (again, that makes it work now) could decide those bumps/thumps were 'some longer time apart' then the light would simply start revolving instead of the normal 'frenetic' mode.

Take the Vertigo for example. In 'normal' mode the light responds to 'bumps & thumps' and (arbitrarily?) changes LED color and/or degree angle and/or direction of the revolving stepper. At least that's how it appears to me.

So, using the controller clock as a reference, count the cycles between the 'bumps & thumps' (that activate things now) and if it exceeds a certain count that equals a certain low BPM (again, not deciding precisely WHAT BPM it is as the threshold is already defined) then just instruct the stepper motor to do nothing but revolve slowly ala an ADJ Sparkle LED (or any other light that just rotates at a constant RPM).

Yes, it IS that simple. We're not talking about 'AI' controlling a moving head precisely to the beat of the music without human/DMX intervention. We're talking about a <$200 fixture that goes into 'rotation mode' when it gets slow/quiet (not too unlike the Tri-Phase).

Well, you can have a slow tempo song tossing lots of beats and thump into it, such as a kick/counter bass combination, which could pump an 80bpm cruiser to a 160bpm invoking heart attacks into spastic dancers trying to keep up.

Bass playing 8ths would double your tempo, as far as what the light is concerned.

See, you're talking theory, but I'm talking reality. So I haven't missed the point. I've just been resolving people's technical problems for 28 year, and this ain't a new one. The only way to resolve this is to strictly control the light. In this case, it would be using an alternate solution for the microphone to provide that control. Now, couple that with your threshhold additions, and now you can get it. Any other way would equate to failure. Or, have a knob controlling speed. BUT, the knob idea for speed would not be a good idea, because your situation is more IDEAL in a more controlled environment, letting threshholds determine fast/slow, or at least various threshhold/ranges to determine various speeds.

In order to not totally screw yourself and waste money, perhaps consider DMX-equiped fixtures, so that way as you grow, they can grow with you. If not, your choices are dimmers and/or selling stuff. As good as the ADJ stuff is, it doesn't have good resale value(nor do other fixtures in that market).

With the right foot controller, you can handle lighting, but I got no idea what you've already got on the floor to stomp onto. As it is, when I'm handdling shows, I'm doing sound, monitors, lights, recording and video switching. Again, quite a handful and lots of distractions as well. I stopped being a musician so it's my job to guarantee myself payment. Don't care what the band is or isn't making, no longer my problem. I got a house full of people to feed, a mortage to pay and 2 crew to take care of.

Sounds like some other people need to step up. I find drummers in most tours are the ones responsible for playing the canned backing tracks. Just a suggestion.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Randy L:
Got a couple questions "West",
1. will you be firing the FX lights into the crowd/dancefloor?
2. does the venue(s) have ceilings? You mentioned beach bar and all the ones I've seen are outdoors.

As far as variety of "action" and movement is concerned. the REVO 3 and REVO 4 are amazing.

(snip)

These are ACTION lights not to be used for mellow songs. Use an H20 for that or a SLOW rotating moonflower.
For a live band though, I'd be looking seriously at wash lights. Consider getting 2 Colorburst 8's, or Mega Bar LED's.

#1 - I'm not sure. I could use some advice on that for the 2 Tri-Gems & Aggressor I just ordered. I know I won't have much, if any fog/haze other than what cigarettes/sparklers might produce

#2 The beach bars I play in mostly have high peaked roofs, either tin or thatched. No ceilings but extensive exposed 6-8" beams. They are usually open to three sides (4th side being the bar/kitchen) to catch the breeze.

Just my opinion but I didn't care for the 'lite-brite' type patterns of the Revo series. Don't get me wrong, I think they would be great for a DJ but not so much for (my) live music.

If I could afford a couple LED washes I'd be there. As it is I only have some PAR38's to play with.

And if/when, I think my next light might very well be an H2O.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pickett:
Well, you can have a slow tempo song tossing lots of beats and thump into it, such as a kick/counter bass combination, which could pump an 80bpm cruiser to a 160bpm invoking heart attacks into spastic dancers trying to keep up.

Bass playing 8ths would double your tempo, as far as what the light is concerned.

Well, ya got me there

quote:

See, you're talking theory, but I'm talking reality. So I haven't missed the point. I've just been resolving people's technical problems for 28 year, and this ain't a new one.

Let me be the first to say (if it's not already obvious) that I am a total newbie to lighting.

I guess it was my previous life as an assembly language/controller programmer that made me run off at the mouth like I know what I'm talking about

quote:

In order to not totally screw yourself and waste money, perhaps consider DMX-equiped fixtures, so that way as you grow, they can grow with you. If not, your choices are dimmers and/or selling stuff. As good as the ADJ stuff is, it doesn't have good resale value(nor do other fixtures in that market).

I seriously, seriously considered that.

Frankly, as a simple one man band I need to be careful my act doesn't become more sizzle than steak.

The way I look at it is I'm just now sticking my toe in the water, not doing/spending much at this point as it may already be overkill. We'll see... Push comes to shove, the LED F/X are throwaways.

Do you tap your foot when you're playing?

If so then maybe some kind of footpedal could be used to switch between steps of a DMX show, or have a lighting fixture step through colours, one for each foot tap - so speed of light show would be determined purely by what your foot's doing.