Ok what's the difference in a long can compared to the short also led sizes?
Thanks,
Jim
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Long and short really don't apply much to the LED cans. The element is at the front, and the electronics are in the back. The cases use a format similar to that of traditional cans, probably done deliberately so people know they are can lights.
I think the difference between long and short cans(for regular cans) is the length of the fixture. Most of the better Par64's I've seen(touring type), the element seems to be near the rear of the fixture. So, I'm getting that the long and short of the difference between long and short would be the overall length of the fixture. I am guessing, and perhaps guessing wrong, that the longer tube would allow less light diffusion and keep the wash a bit more localized.
I think the difference between long and short cans(for regular cans) is the length of the fixture. Most of the better Par64's I've seen(touring type), the element seems to be near the rear of the fixture. So, I'm getting that the long and short of the difference between long and short would be the overall length of the fixture. I am guessing, and perhaps guessing wrong, that the longer tube would allow less light diffusion and keep the wash a bit more localized.
Since LED's generally have a tight beam, not a lot really. On halogen lights, the longer barrel helps control light spill, like a top hat would.
The only real use it would have on LEDs is it would help mask the LED's themselves. Some people find them distracting and the fact that on most LEDs you can see individual red, green, and blue ones adds to the fact.
In theatre or corporate work, where I do most of my gigs, the only thing you really want to see from the light is the color, gobo, beam, and/or area the light is lighting and not the light itself. Most certainly not individual RGB LED's as well. For this reason, I use only tri-LEDs for overhead and back wash now really. Effect stuff or washes in which the cans can't be seen, the regular LEDs work if I can deal with color shadows for whatever reason.
Ultimately, the question you need to ask is if the type of work you are doing is benefited by trying to mask the LEDs themselves or not.
The only real use it would have on LEDs is it would help mask the LED's themselves. Some people find them distracting and the fact that on most LEDs you can see individual red, green, and blue ones adds to the fact.
In theatre or corporate work, where I do most of my gigs, the only thing you really want to see from the light is the color, gobo, beam, and/or area the light is lighting and not the light itself. Most certainly not individual RGB LED's as well. For this reason, I use only tri-LEDs for overhead and back wash now really. Effect stuff or washes in which the cans can't be seen, the regular LEDs work if I can deal with color shadows for whatever reason.
Ultimately, the question you need to ask is if the type of work you are doing is benefited by trying to mask the LEDs themselves or not.
The new lights I am looking at I think are both tri-LED's. Not knocking the current stuff I have, because the reason for my moving to tri-LED stuff is because I need brighter, and Elation has what I need.
Serra Ava's point about the individual LED's isn't resolved completely by adding some sort of top hat type device IF you're using separate RGB led'S, which do end up doing some smearing/shadowing, but that's the nature of using that technology. The Tri-LED stuff doesn't have those issues. As I'm getting more critical of my work and striving to improve, I'm noticing this stuff myself. Am I getting rid of my current stuff? No, not by a long shot, but I can get newer better stuff and integrate it into the existing lighting design.
Due to where I have to put my lights, I can't really hide the fact of what I'm doing and how the lights behave.
Interesting concept that the LED's have a tighter beam. I would not have thought about that. This is again, mainly because of the lights that I do have, they just lack the punch I need to handle the throw I'm asking them to handle.
Serra Ava's point about the individual LED's isn't resolved completely by adding some sort of top hat type device IF you're using separate RGB led'S, which do end up doing some smearing/shadowing, but that's the nature of using that technology. The Tri-LED stuff doesn't have those issues. As I'm getting more critical of my work and striving to improve, I'm noticing this stuff myself. Am I getting rid of my current stuff? No, not by a long shot, but I can get newer better stuff and integrate it into the existing lighting design.
Due to where I have to put my lights, I can't really hide the fact of what I'm doing and how the lights behave.
Interesting concept that the LED's have a tighter beam. I would not have thought about that. This is again, mainly because of the lights that I do have, they just lack the punch I need to handle the throw I'm asking them to handle.
LED point source is much tighter then a halogen lamp, hence the tighter beam. If you just have a lamp out in the open, light spills everywhere. An LED would mainly fire forward vs all over.
Ultimately, it comes down to lensing and halogens still have much better and improving lensing tech since they are older. Although Elation is doing some pretty cool things with LED's and zoom lenses now. Still no LED leko yet and ETC owns Selador now. I imagine the optics on an LED leko are very challenging, especially vs ones as versatile as the Source Four is.
Ultimately, it comes down to lensing and halogens still have much better and improving lensing tech since they are older. Although Elation is doing some pretty cool things with LED's and zoom lenses now. Still no LED leko yet and ETC owns Selador now. I imagine the optics on an LED leko are very challenging, especially vs ones as versatile as the Source Four is.
Elation will be coming out with a LED type Leko sometime next year. You'll have to see it to believe it 
Serra it should be in the PDF I made for you.
Sincerely,
Serra it should be in the PDF I made for you. Sincerely,
Sweet. Email it to me 
. I didn't see it in the stuff I got originally, just some new Tone stuff.
. I didn't see it in the stuff I got originally, just some new Tone stuff.
Page 13 of the PDF I sent you. WW Tone.
Thank you, just ordered 12 short par 64 led cans
One other question, how many can be put on a circuit
Well how many amps are available on the circuit your going to be putting them on? Here is a easy trick to learn how to calculate amp usage. Watts divided by volts equals Amps.
For example say 300 watts divided by 120 volts gives you a total amp usage of 2.5 amps used.
Hope that helps.
Sincerely,
For example say 300 watts divided by 120 volts gives you a total amp usage of 2.5 amps used.
Hope that helps.
Sincerely,
Thanks Jingles,not sure what the watts of a Led Par 64 is, I know when the 4-300 watt cans are on they measured 19.5 amps
Do you mean 9.5 or 10.5 amps instead? 1200 watts drawing 19.5 amps would mean you are running about 61 volts which is extremely low. At 9.5 amps, it would be 126 volts which is high but still in safe range. 10.5 amps 114 volts which would be in normal range.
P64 Pro's are listed at 30w a piece. That would mean you can get about 70 safely on a 20 amp, about 50 on a 15 amp. So I don't think you will have to worry about the power situation when using LEDs.
P64 Pro's are listed at 30w a piece. That would mean you can get about 70 safely on a 20 amp, about 50 on a 15 amp. So I don't think you will have to worry about the power situation when using LEDs.
Oh I was talking about regular 300 watt Par cans not leds, a electrician measured them for me at a job. And actual draw was 19.5 amps and thank you that's exactly what i needed
Again, go back to what Jingles said.
Read your manual for the specs of your fixtures at FULL DRAW(the manual should state this). Do the math, you can figure out how many you can run on a circuit.
THIS IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED with how many you could run by daisy chaining fixtures. With my Mega Bar 50's, I only feel safe chaining 3 fixtures off a Mega Bar 50 for a string of 4 per run.
Read your manual for the specs of your fixtures at FULL DRAW(the manual should state this). Do the math, you can figure out how many you can run on a circuit.
THIS IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED with how many you could run by daisy chaining fixtures. With my Mega Bar 50's, I only feel safe chaining 3 fixtures off a Mega Bar 50 for a string of 4 per run.
How did he measure them? Because that is impossible for 1200w worth of lights to be pulling 19.5 amps off a standard 120v home outlet. You would need something like three 750w fixtures or four 575 watt fixtures. Four 600w fixtures would/should trip a 20 amp breaker if it is even 1 volt below 120 volts.
The only other thing I can thing is they were 600w cans and your voltage was around 123.1 volts to get 19.5 amps. I am interested because either you are using some really weird power (its happen to me on more then a few occasions, why I take my meter everywhere with me) or the guy is lying to you.
The only other thing I can thing is they were 600w cans and your voltage was around 123.1 volts to get 19.5 amps. I am interested because either you are using some really weird power (its happen to me on more then a few occasions, why I take my meter everywhere with me) or the guy is lying to you.
I remember he had his meter hooked at the box on the breaker, It's quite possible they were 600 watt cans as they were loaned to me at the time.
Many Thanks for the information
Many Thanks for the information
quote:Originally posted by SerraAva:
How did he measure them? Because that is impossible for 1200w worth of lights to be pulling 19.5 amps off a standard 120v home outlet. You would need something like three 750w fixtures or four 575 watt fixtures. Four 600w fixtures would/should trip a 20 amp breaker if it is even 1 volt below 120 volts.
The only other thing I can thing is they were 600w cans and your voltage was around 123.1 volts to get 19.5 amps. I am interested because either you are using some really weird power (its happen to me on more then a few occasions, why I take my meter everywhere with me) or the guy is lying to you.
Well then again doesn't voltage drop because of the more load on the line. I mean I could be wrong here but I always thought that when there is a load on the line voltage drops. Or for instance the more resistance on the line will cause the amperage to increase which in turn drops the voltage.
Now unless there are voltage regulators on the line, I don't think the voltage will stay the same when more lights/loads are added to the line.
Now I could be way off here so please some one correct me.
In an IDEAL world, voltage shouldn't drop when draw increases or a load is placed on the circuit. Unfortunately, there's a lot of "up to code" electrical work that sucks, and breakers and other items wear and weaken over time, as well as power companies doing their best to provide as minimal a service at a premium rate(they are all guaranteed by the government to turn a profit).
Voltage SHOULD be supplied at 120 Volts, but it can vary from anywhere from 94 to 147(that's the range I've seen).
After a place I've been to frequently did an electrical overhaul because I complained about various problems(including quite a few dangerous situations), the power went from crappy to beefy from the August event to the October event. Power stayed solid and reliable. I also had a method of tapping into the power to measure voltate supplied down the cable, vs what is being available through the first Furman power unit. I was pleased it never dropped below 120V the entire time, and my FOH rig draws 13.5 amps.
I'm not an electrician, and my knowlege may be lacking in certain areas, but depending on the meter, how is he tapped in and how is he measuring draw?
3 600-watt cans are going to draw, ASSUMABLY, 1800 watts at 120 volts, and you're right at the danger zone of popping the breaker as that's a full 15 amps at 120 volts, 60Hz.
Voltage SHOULD be supplied at 120 Volts, but it can vary from anywhere from 94 to 147(that's the range I've seen).
After a place I've been to frequently did an electrical overhaul because I complained about various problems(including quite a few dangerous situations), the power went from crappy to beefy from the August event to the October event. Power stayed solid and reliable. I also had a method of tapping into the power to measure voltate supplied down the cable, vs what is being available through the first Furman power unit. I was pleased it never dropped below 120V the entire time, and my FOH rig draws 13.5 amps.
I'm not an electrician, and my knowlege may be lacking in certain areas, but depending on the meter, how is he tapped in and how is he measuring draw?
3 600-watt cans are going to draw, ASSUMABLY, 1800 watts at 120 volts, and you're right at the danger zone of popping the breaker as that's a full 15 amps at 120 volts, 60Hz.
Voltage does fluctuate, but not to that degree. If you have that low a voltage, you are going to end up damaging equipment do to added amp draw.
If you have a good source for power, like a generator, voltage should barely fluctuate at all.
If you have a good source for power, like a generator, voltage should barely fluctuate at all.
At this one place I saw 94 volts according to my Furman PL-Plus, so I metered it out and it was also reading 94 volts. I refused to plug in. They provided another circuit, which was also tested, but tested fine(118 volts, acceptable). Whatever I said, it must have made a difference because I was back at that location the next month and it was fixed.
I think all I said was to have an electrician come in and check that out. Don't know what was done, but somethng was.
When I use my generator, voltage barely fluctuates at all. So I can confirm that. However, since it's a low end generator(for lack of a better term), I front end the output with a pair of UPS's(for each 15-amp circuit) to clean up the circuit a bit. Generators aren't known for being quiet on the AC circuit.
Now, on the other hand, I did this show with a trailer-based diesel generator. BIG MOFO generator. Same type they parked in front of the neighbors house to run fans day and night for a month to dry up the damage caused by water(pipe broke, flooded the house, they ended up gutting it and doing it, thank goodness I turned off the water when something else broke a few months later). At any rate, that power was nice and clean from those types of generators. Then again, I have no idea what that one would have run, but it's not a fair comparison to a $600 Briggs & Stratton generator!
More folks need to understand what their equipment draws. That's what was what pushed me to get into the LED stuff, because I found my Par38's were too many and hence too much draw and not enough results.
I think all I said was to have an electrician come in and check that out. Don't know what was done, but somethng was.
When I use my generator, voltage barely fluctuates at all. So I can confirm that. However, since it's a low end generator(for lack of a better term), I front end the output with a pair of UPS's(for each 15-amp circuit) to clean up the circuit a bit. Generators aren't known for being quiet on the AC circuit.
Now, on the other hand, I did this show with a trailer-based diesel generator. BIG MOFO generator. Same type they parked in front of the neighbors house to run fans day and night for a month to dry up the damage caused by water(pipe broke, flooded the house, they ended up gutting it and doing it, thank goodness I turned off the water when something else broke a few months later). At any rate, that power was nice and clean from those types of generators. Then again, I have no idea what that one would have run, but it's not a fair comparison to a $600 Briggs & Stratton generator!
More folks need to understand what their equipment draws. That's what was what pushed me to get into the LED stuff, because I found my Par38's were too many and hence too much draw and not enough results.
quote:Mega Bar 50
Why is that Chris? A cheapo 100' 16 gauge extension chord is rated at 1250W. For UL purposes that is probably understating their ability. Shorter cords should safely handle even more watts.
Each Mega Bar 50 draws only 18W. Unless the power out supply is running through the 1 amp fuse in the bar [which would be stupid wouldn't it?], what would be the problem running up to 70 bars on a daisy chained power supply?