LED PAR 64

No fan, not needed. QUIET QUIET QUIET and COOL!

I have 8. I'm thinking of another 8, plus 4 Mega Panels, 4 Mega Pixels and 4 Mega Bars.

Definately go with the 64 LED Pro. The 7 channel mode is fantastic.

That's great that they run silent. My only fear with LEDs (aside from the initial cost) is their reliability. Everywhere I turn I hear and read about LED units failing after only a few hundred hours. Didn't you (Chris) post last week about a problem with one of yours? I just don't want to pay out a lot of money for units that need constant repair.

I wouldn't worry too much about those specific units. I have only heard on these forums about those specific units was when Chris was having trouble with his. And his i would say is a isolated issue. I know I would be confident buying several of these units.
Sincerely,

Sounds good then! Thanks!

The problems you hear about LEDs failing are normally higher power LEDs that have forced air cooling aka fans. The fans get blocked, the LEDs over heat, and then they fail or lose intensity. Or poor design with not enough air getting to the LED. This was the problem with the original X-Move and has been corrected in the X-Move Plus.

You should be perfectly fine with conventional cooling aka fanless. These LEDs aren't as powerful and as such, aren't prone to failing like other high powered LEDs.

I'm pretty sure my problem with my 64 LED Pro is isolated. I have 8 of them and I like them a lot. Of the 8, only the same 1 is blowing fuses, so I'm sure it's an isolated issue.

I have to replace 4 color changer/wash fixtures soon. I'm debating what to get. I may go with 4 more 64 LED Pro's. The color changers/wash fixtures are of a competing brand and I've been thoroughly displeased with these fixtures, from breaking bulbs to just being poorly designed. But now that I'm trying to move to all LED, just gives me more to not enjoy about them.

I'm very pleased with the 64 LED Pros. They do everything I want and expected of them, and more since it has a strobe function as well.

Not to knock non-ADJ lighting exclusively. I have two ADJ Color Fusions, which I really like a lot. But, at 900-watts draw per fixture at 100%, they are a pig on the power circuit, with the pair taking up a whole 15-amp circuit. I don't mind their fan noise, it's quickly lost in a show. I'm looking to phase out the pair for maybe a set of Mega Panels. I'm also looking at the Mega Bar and Mega Pixel lights as well. To the best of my knowledge, none of these LED fixtures have fans.

I'm also looking towards some additional ADJ LED purchases soon as budgetting allows. My priority right now is 2 ribbon mics and phasing out 2 7000Mhz wireless microphone units.

I'm glad to hear that the American DJ units seem to be reliable. Correct me it I'm wrong, but the 64 LED Pro's only have 5mm LEDs in them? Do you think it would be worth the extra cash to get a more powerful Elation unit?

The orginal par 64 led Does not say the size of the leds. however the P64 LED PRO is 10mm LEDS. For elation I really would look at the Tri par led stuff. The TRI leds are amazing. No RGB color shadows at all.
Sincerely,

I'd like to get into the Tri LED stuff, but some of it is a bit too expensive for my budget.

For me though, and this is an issue other people may have to deal with, the RGB shadowing is not a concern, mainly since I often have a bit of "throw" which lets the LED lighting converge better. Even somewhat close up, I don't really have any RGB shadowing issues in my applications.

Now, this is different than my ADJ Color Fusions. These are NOT LED fixtures and use 3 bulbs in 3 compartments covered by different filters. Anything under 12 feet away and you get RGB shadowing. After 12 feet, it gets better. These I've found are good for light wash over a distance.

Because the LED's in the 64 LED Pro and many other ADJ LED non-TRI fixtures are "intermingled" of Red, green and blue LED's, RGB shadowing theoretically should NOT be an issue. It is worth noting.

My issue with the 64 LED Pros I have is not with the lights itself, but rather the events I do where space is at a premium. These fixtures need some space to wash properly, which makes sense anyways, considering what it is. Having to be crowded up into the band and/or stage, it just sometimes can't provide the coverage I really want. Again, NOT the fault of the fixture, but the fault of where I am forced to locate the lights.

This is unlike the Mega Pixel, which operates in banks of like-colored LED's. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, because I have a desire for the effect that it can produce. You can wash with these lights but they aren't as effective. These are definately meant to dance about a bit and be seen by the audience in my opinion.

I think for me, some Mega Panels, Mega bars and Punch Pros are in my near future. That and some more 64 LED Pros.

Whatever I decide to buy (or not) would be primarily used as follows:

12 units spaced evenly across a 35ft horizontal truss 20ft in the air. This is an upstage truss, so the lights would be aimed down towards the front of the stage, giving a (hopefully) nice back lighting effect. Light haze may or may not be used.

The reason I'm looking to go LED is that they can do smooth color fades, so I could program some nice effects to go on behind the performers. Low power consumption is also a plus. The tri-LEDs are cool, but I don't have to really worry about RGB shadows if I mount the units as described. Now I understand the beams won't be nearly as bright as if I shot the effect with Mac2Ks, but would something like the Elation Opti TRIPAR work well enough? FYI primary lighting is coming from 2-3 dozen 500w PAR 64s.

In my opinion, this would be an ideal placement. But you can't get a backlighting effect from an upstage truss unless you're aiming behind the performers. You just want a nice wash. Make "zones" and aim lights accordingly. No way you're getting RGB shadowing at those throws.

You can get some Mega Bars for backlighting if you wanted to, either floor/foot or hung. I want to get some for front footlighting applications as well as t-bar mounting for being a bit more of a reinforcement to the 64 LED Pros I have.

Yes, the LED's can do smooth color fades, provided you do your work to ensure it's a smooth fade. Not like it takes a lot of work anyways. In MyDMX, you can control your fade time but you do have to hard-code it into your scene. They can go as smooth or as harsh as you want it.

As far as replacing 2-3 dozen regular Par64's, a user reported he felt that the light output wasn't as bright on the LEDs as with the traditionals. I can't agree since I don't have any to compare with. That guy did show a fair A/B test using a camera for reference photos though, so his argument is thoroughly documented and supports his statement.

Your spot on in regards to current draw, which equates to money saved to the utility company.

You might also see if Serra Ava jumps into this thread. He's got some good comparison advise about a good many fixtures that would definately be useful for you.

Yeah, I have no interest in replacing my conventional Par 64s - I just wanted to give an idea of what other lights I'd be using with these. The reason I want to put the LED Pars above and behind the performers is because, if nothing else, I can write some nice programs utilizing different colors to compliment the performers if they'd like. I little 'eye candy' as some say.

I would agree with you by saying that anything but maybe the brightest LED Par on the market would fall short of the output of a conventional Par. I'm also not too fond of how LED Pars look lighting people - I prefer the look of halogen lamps, but that's just my opinion. I was just hoping I can find something bright enough to be seen and appreciated.

Well, based on previous information I've received, I think the backlighting usage for the LED's would fail, unless you want to light the backdrop.

Personally, I prefer the look of the LED's, mainly since that's what I got so I better get used to it. They can be a bit harsh though, no question about that.

The problem is, the LED's lack the punch of your halogens, and so my concern would be that whatever they would be doing would get lost from the wash from the halogen fixtures. Just the nature of backlighting vs. front lighting. But I think since you're not lighting the performers, that should probably make what you're doing an exception to the rule sort of thing.

Of course, only one way to find out for sure, right?

Time for serra ava to post a shoot out. in fact if you search here or the elation forums you may find it.
Sincerely,

Dean was that guy who did the shootout on the Par64's.

Serra Ava was who I was referring to for the front vs backlighting.

My current shadowcast show doesn't allow for backlighting because it risks washing out the screen. Honestly, what we're doing is far beyond shadowcasting, we're doing the real show practically. Even so, since it is a "shadowcast" type deal, we have to keep the movie going and viewable.

I would definitely try to borrow a few LED units to try them as intended before I buy a bunch. I'd hate to spend the money and not be happy with the effect!

I looked at the ADJ Color Fusion, as well as something similar made by Chauvet (only it was based in a Par can, not a wash light). I would prefer to get either over LEDs for cost, plus I can predict how halogen lights will look far better than LEDs, as I've never used them - only seen them. I just can't spare enough power to run any large number of halogen wash lights. Maybe I'll take a look at some Elation CYM Zoom fixtures...At this point I'm just trying to get ideas what might work and what won't, and then price.

Well, thanks a lot for you input, and Merry Christmas!

I'm not thoroughly pleased with the Color Fusions. Too high a draw(up to 900 watts per fixture with RGB at 100% and dimmer at 100%). Even so, you're guaranteed some RGB shadowing no matter what, or at least noticable at the wash edges.

They get the job done, but for what I know now, not going to get those again. Once I find a replacement for the Color Fusions and 4 other fixtures not by ADJ that I have, chances are those will hit the auction block.

Shoot out? Where where? Lol, just kidding. Sorry I have been MIA, in Florida working/vacationing.

Anyway, an Elation Opti Tri Par has very similar output to a 500w Par 64. It should keep up fairly well color for color. A 1000w Par 64, it will be over powered easily. Other fixtures, like Source 4 Pars will also out shine a Tri Par.

Elation is upping all power on their LEDs this year. Everything is basically going up to around 108w of power for their cans. They are also adding zooms to everything. I plan on grabbing some ELED Par RGB Zooms (72 total power, 10-60 degree zoom) or some DLED Par Zoom (108w total power, 10-60 degree zoom). The zoom is what is really drawing me to them. Fixed angle is a pain to work with for a lot of stuff that I do. You basically end up adding a ton of fixtures for no throw distance or need more for longer throw distances because the angle is too large and intensity too weak. I run into that a lot with the DLED 36 MHs we have. Drives me nuts, because they are great units, but can't punch throw the other stuff I have a lot of times/wrong sizing.

Anyway, let me know if you have any questions, be glad to help/answer.

Here's my sitaution: it's almost always financial. I simply can't afford the "better stuff", so I have to go with the ADJ option, which I have to say hasn't really been a problem in the past.

Now, I have a set of 4 Chauvet lights that are just agravating the crap outta me for reasons I won't go into.

The 8 64 LED Pros are being ruled "not bright enough", which starts to push decisions being made.

I can phase out the 4 Chauvet fixtures with 4 or 8 of the 64 LED Pros, so I'm good to go there. I was contemplating the P64 LED, but the more I think about them, the less I like them, mainly due to lack of a dedicated dimmer channel. Other lights suggested to me just aren't what I'm looking for.

The Opti Tri Par has me interested now, but it is ruled out because of price. I'd need 8 of them, but can barely afford 2 at the LIST price, so I might have to investigate some B-stock options if they exist.

You throw in the ELED RGB Zoom, which comes at a lower list price than the Opti Tri Par, but I'm not sure what "street pricing" is, but I can find out. With 5 watts higher draw than the Opti- Tri Par, the current draw is negligible. The DLED Par Zoom is just flat out not within budget based on price.

Would the ELED RGB ZOOM compete comparatively with a 500-watt Par64 bulb?

I think I could swing things with getting 4 ELED RGB ZOOM's, then upgrade later as funding permits.

Regardless of what I decide, it's gonna take a lot of money and a lot of of re-programming to do the show I'm working on. The only thing I like about those Chauvet fixture is the color wheel, and that's trivial as I can emulate that via fast/medium color macro setting.

I can at least start to do my programming offline without the lights thanks to MyDMX's 3D Visualizer. So, should my budgetting fall apart(very likely), I still have my original show programming on standby.

Really, I'm looking at a higher-output replacement for my 64 LED Pros so I can re-use the 64 LED Pros for something else within the same lighting design. Affordability is my main issue.

I know I can afford 12 of the P64LED's, but I also have to think about cable clutter and how many plugs at those locations. I don't think that's the right way to go, and not because I'm only using 1 tree because I can use trussing or multiple trees.

I also have to look at other wash solutions.

I have a video to check out:
http://www.studio42.com/repo/

You can see what I'm trying to accomplish. It's not a "complete" show, but it does show a small segment that doesn't use the follow spots, or the movers that much. I don't have budgetting right now because I don't know what I can spend since I have a client who doens't pay their bills on time, but I have a dealer who will work with me.

I Think i can help here. I used about 6 of these lights at LDI on the Elation booth. these are nice units. I had the zoom channels doing a sinus wave while the colors chasing were a golden yellow to magenta. It was hard to see the actual output of the fixtures on the floor with everything else going on in the booth but i think if you picked those units you would be fine. and you can go from a nice spot type beam to a nice wash. If i were you i would post this question bout the ELEd RGB Zoom on the elation forums and i will have one of my guy's answer it for you. But i can say for sure those are a nice fun fixture.
Sincerely,

Well, since an Opti Tri Par with 54w total of LED power keeps up with a 500w par, an ELED RGB Zoom with 72w of total LED power should have no problem keeping up. I will have to see if I can't dig up that shout out I did a while back with the Opti Tri in it.

Interesting in a good way. I really don't need the zoom function, but I need the lower price.

The opti tri par is listing for $100 more than the ELED RGB Zoom, at least on the Elation site. I'm sure either would be fine for my application, and I can certainly see some applications where I'd want a sharper beam, thus making the fixture more functional.

I have to check some online sites for pricing. Really, it honestly doesn't matter to me where I find the pricing. I route all my lighting sales through the same place all the time.

My next event where I need this stuff is February 27th. I know I won't meet all new lighting objectives unless a couple of companies can really get behind me and "show some major love", if ya get my drift, which let's face it, won't happen.

I'm also under pressure because apparently, and this is a rumor, one of the show's creators is going to be there. So, gotta "up the wow factor". Honestly, most of the pressure is me pressuring me. I figure if I can replace the Color Fusion with Mega Panels, I'm in good shape for that swap-out. Now, affording 4 of another Par can, that might be a big tough to swallow, but I'll see what I can do.

Funny thing, I was editing the photos from the event, and the ADJ 64 LED Pro that popped a fuse was working JUST FINE in that photo!

Time to move back to the Elation forum, tomorrow! I'm slammed trying to get a video project out the door.