LED Bar or Panel for band?

After doing some additional research, I have a couple of other questions...

While I initially was asking about the "LED bar" style fixtures, I was also curious about the various "LED panel" fixtures and read a couple of threads on this forum discussing them.

So, for a simple "stage wash", What is your suggestion for which of the four fixtures would serve my needs best?

Mega Bar LED
Mega Pixel LED
Mega Panel LED
Profile Panel LED

Remember, as stated above, I am trying to "downsize" to a small and simple set up and operation for my band. We are working smaller venues where the "largest" stage would be 16ft x 16ft and normally much smaller than that.

I would also appreciate advice on the UC-3 or similar "simple" controller for a "stage wash" set up.

Thanks in advance...

Hello tony, I have sent you an email. Sorry for the delay.
Sincerely,

Well, I think size matters, but I also recommend maybe spreading it out a bit too.

First, I have almost entirely ADJ lights, and am pleased with them. I also have 8 mega Bar 50's and 4 Mega Panels. I am also planning a future purchase(say, 5-8 days) of 4 Profile Panels to save money over purchasing 4 more Mega Panels.

Now, this is the strange thing:
The Mega Bar 50's and the Mega Panels do produce, for lack of a better term, a ROUND light, almost as if it's an LED can, just flat. Go figure!

Now, I do something with my Mega Panels that sort of limit what I can do with them, but hey, for what I do, it's perfect. I have them mounted on a 5-foot section of iBeam trussing and typically mount them on the floor, like this:
The Mega Panels are mounted to the trussing using ADJ O-Clamps and wired using Accucable 3-wire DMX cable. Power is from a hidden power strip in the mix. Set-up and tear down is super fast and easy.

My clients LOVE this configuration(center 2 up front, rear 2 on back bar, then arc'ed into a cresent for presentation). One client loved this so much he requested I NOT bring in additional lights as he felt THIS was enough light show on it's own. Thank goodness, because I was having to run 2 events at the same time and was pretty much shot to hell on lights as a result for the rave room. That bank served a 250+ sugar-high bunch of anime fans!

The Mega Bar 50s I like because they are cheap, compact and for the money, put out like a hooker trying to get a medical degree(OK, maybe not that much!). For the application I bought them for, the original 4 weren't enough, so I had to double up and get another 4, which was ideal. But, this is a large stage(36X20), and they were bought to supplement lights having to do a far throw appliation and they are more short/medium throw(ADJ 64 LED Pros). I did use my 8 Mega Bar 50's for my last second Halloween thing, and it was too much, but that's OK. We're talking lighting up my porch area.

Now, comparing the Mega Bar to the Mega Pixel, it's not a straight "apples to apples" comparison. It's more of a "Fuji Apples to a Red Delicious" sort of thing. While similar, they have a lot of differences, which may or may not be advantageous. The Mega Pixel units have little banks of same color LED's, which can be utilized for effect that a Mega Bar can't handle. The Mega Panel and Profile Panel have higher DMX Channel counts so I think it breaks up the pannel into I think 8 possible zones, which can be leveraged for effect, but the software I have can't really "realize" that in it's 3D Visualizer, and anyways, 7 channel mode is what I want anyways. The Mega Bars are straight up single color at a time wash lights, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do like throwing the Mega Panels into sound active mode.

Addressing how you want to light your band, I think a panel would be better, mainly for the bracket arrangement, but I also think some of your idea needs some work. I would suggest 2 Mega Panels per stand, either on the pole or hanging off T-bars(T-bar might be better). THis gives you better wash and coverage.

If you go with a bar, it really eats up too much "pole" real-estate if you want more than 1, and won't let you really do 2 at once. If you mount them on a T-bar, you have more options, providing what type of Mega Bar you go with. The Mega Bar 50 is a short one, so it gives more options.

Now, I'm getting 4 Profile panels to help augment the Mega Bar 50's. They will go in 4 nests of 2 Mega bar 50's and 1 Profile Panel per bank.(stage is divided into 4 zones). PRICE is a factor, because if it wasn't, I'd get 4 more Mega Panels. But future plans include Elation tri LED cans(16 total, 8 RGB Zooms, 8 Opti Tri Pars, or maybe just 16 of one type), so it's best to go a bit cheaper now to help support the Mega Bar 50s a bit more and then save the cash for bigger lights for the near future.

So, my recommendation is really 4 Mega Panels, 2 per side. If money is a factor, then 4 Profile Panels because they cost half, but aren't as bright either. If you want MORE lights for more money, then go with 8 Profile Panels, which would cost about the same as 4 Mega Panels. If going with pole mounting, get 4 ADJ O-clamps. If going with T-bars, use the bolts included or O-clamps, and leave the lights on the bar. Pre-wiring saves time.

As far as controllers, I'm really partial to the MyDMX software. I'm not interested at all in the UC-3 controller. That's not to say it's not good. It's just that due to what I do, the UC-3 isn't anything I'm interested in. I do know that if you take the time to program an ADJ DMX Operator, it can be very easy to use and very convenient when recalling scenes.

Jingles: As I told you via email: "THANKS!" I appreciated the detailed explaination of the differences in the various ADJ models I was inquiring about.

Chris: I really appreciate your advice. But I think we are "worlds apart" in our "markets" that you and I work.

The "market" for my band is significantly different than your local DJ market or the market for a DJ in my part of the world. We play much more "mellow" (read: "geezer") audiences...I am sorry I was not more specific in my original post.

We just need some simple illumination so we can see our instruments and the people in the audience can see our faces.

I think you have a valid point about the limit to "bars on poles". My original thought was one bar LED fixture on the vertical pole, one per side. My current thoughts, after Jingles suggestion, tend to lean more towards placing one LED Panel (most likely the Profile Panel) on each side of our stage.

Let me assure you that I have adequate lights (26 ADJ fixtures and Elation DMX control) should we perform in a larger venue where we are expected to provide sound and lighting.

Anyway...As to your suggestion...I can envision the light show you described and it would be impressive.

I don't really disagree with any of your comments. It is just that I don't believe they will meet the needs of my band and our venues/audiences.

I appreciate you taking time to reply.

Fat Tony
Stillwater, OK
...where the wind really does come sweeping down the plains.

"geezer bar" or not, I still think that having a BIT more illumination would be a better thing. Trust me, the SHORT throw on the Mega Panels isn't going to much more than do a dim glow unless you're all packed into a 10-foot circle, and even then, it won't be much. Not to say I don't really like my Mega Panels, but I know the limitations of what they can do.

Also, if you're insisting on trimming down that much, spend the extra on the Mega Panels rather than the Profile Panels. The Mega Panels use the 10MM LED's and are theoretically twice as bright. Let me just say this though: they Mega Panels ARE brighter.

But, if you've got 26 ADJ fixtures AND Elation DMX control, why do you need to spend more money on lighting and control when chances are you've already got what you need except for maybe the color changing capability? Heck, get some Par38's, gel sheets and dimmer packs, those tend to work really good too. If it wasn't for the high power draw, I'd use mine a lot more and I got 32 Par38's!

Or, you could go with some Mega Bars, pop them on the floor and aim UP!

I'm also thinking about lighting the front line talent AND the backline talent, even if only minimally. Stands with T-Bars can get the light up MUCH higher, but a tall stand with 2 panels will work fine too. One high, one a bit lower. Aim the HIGH one into the backline, aim the lower ones into the frontline.

Also, do keep in mind I'm not a DJ. I'm an live sound production company. I, simply put, WILL NOT and DO NOT do DJ work. My main focus is working with bands, formerly only A-List talent, but now I've taken a break from that and am "slumming it" at home.

Just keep in mind that regardless which way you go, bar or panel, the wash will be more or less round. I don't understand why either, they aren't in a circular configuration!

I'm just saying, based on my experience.

I thought the ADJ 64 LED Pros were gonna be the answer to my lighting issues, but they really aren't, and so I'm adding and learning and adding. Just trying to get sufficient light from a longer throw, they just aren't goint to cut it. And the beam doesn't spread too much, so you need SOME throw to give you some wider coverage. In my case, I have to focus a lot on clear sight lines so I have to have some distance. The panels and bars tend to spread a bit more in shrter throw environments, but also tend to disperse faster as well, thus necessitating a higher output fixture to maintain some sort of usable light.

If it was me, I'd be using 2 Mega Panels per side on at least an LTS-2 stand. T-bar or not? That's debatable, but the LTS-2 comes with the T-bars that I can just choose to not use.

Now, if my dumb-ass crew would have taken photos at the last event(which is in part why they're gone), you could see how things are done for one of the recurring events I work.

Here's a 16'X6' stage, with 2 photos. 1 shows a light, the other just shows the performer. 2 Mega Panels only. This would be your scenario except with more people. But this is a Mega Panel on an LTS-2 stand with no T-Bar, 1/side, so it's a like for like for you. This was on February 6, 2010 this year at an event I did sound and lighting for.





If you want more photos from that event, please see:

Tribute to Rama

It features one of my all-time favorite guitar players that I get to mix for.

I'm updating photos from the past 5 months over the next 2 weeks. Not a lot to add, but there is some to add.

Hey Chris (yawn) It's 2 AM in the flatlands...so, let's cover a couple of your comments before I wander off to bed...

First, we appear to have a little in common...while the only "former A list" I have provided sound for is Asleep At The Wheel, an "early 2000" group called Stephen Speaks (based out of Tulsa, we see them at least a couple times each year locally) and a "used to be" Nashville artist, Doug Stone...most of my shows were with college Indie acts or Red Dirt Country/Rock groups out of "south Texas" (Austin) and more than a few home grown artists with songs on that same Red Dirt chart.

You may recall some alumni of Stillwater OK...Garth Brooks, or more recently All American Rejects and Cross Canadian Ragweed. To be honest, I was still a cop when Garth was singing for tips during happy hour at Willie's Saloon...then, after I retired, I was the one playing for tips at Willies...(grin)

As for the Rejects...well, yeah, I have a couple of "ties" with them. Friends of my oldest son...I ran sound for them once...LONG before they "were somebody"...and had a couple of "professional" dealings with some of the originals when I was still "on the job". In fact, one of the original Rejects is still friends with my son and I...he even came to see my band perform last month...really a nice guy.

OK...sound and lights:

Since you mentioned the ADJ 64 LED Pros...I own six of the ADJ "first generation" 64P LED. I "barely" was able to provide adequate lighting on a 20x16 stage in a "college age country saloon" (fire code occupancy 450).

The bar was my client, not the bands. After about four months the club owner decided my light stands were taking up too much space and told me to lose the lights. (Has anyone else noticed that bar owners have no logic?) I got him to agree to "allow me" to "hang" eight Par 38, static, with gels...NO control. (I basically gave them to the club if he would hang them. His plan was to just turn on the florescent lights over the stage. He bankrupted last May.)

Anyway, one of the "hot" south Texas based bands came through (before the club closed) that we had worked with previously. Their road manager/sound tech asked what happened to the LEDs and we explained. He drug out some "brand X" lighting panels with three LED fixtures in each panel...the fixtures all had 3 banks of 36 1 Watt LEDs. He told me how these fixtures would "blow mine away". Nope! Did not impress me. "Slightly" better if that.

I have seen several very nice LED fixtures in the various theaters in Branson MO (just 5 hour drive) and they do have "long throw" capabilities. BUT...long throw LEDs are just not available in my budget range.

Back to my band:

Just to give you more background than you really want...

The two "primary" venues where we play are not "bars" in the typical definition. One is a "wine bar" and normally does not have a "band", just a soloist, maybe a small 2 or 3 piece with a singer...semi acoustic, jazz more than "rock/blues". The other venue is a restaurant that has live music one night a week during the "late" dinner hours. (8-10pm) In both venues, you can "see to read" the menu without any trouble. The ambient room light is enough that NONE of the other musical groups even take stage lighting...so, it will not take much lighting.

I am using Par 38s now at the wine bar (not taking lights to the restaurant). I took some spare parts (actually the "short arms" from a ADJ LTS-1) and slipped them over a "shortie mic tripod" and clamped a couple of Par38 with gels to the vertical pole...we put this "rig" behind us for "uplighting" on the wall. (Roscoe Gels: No Color Blue and No Color Pink)

I hesitate to put them in front of us...my problems would be heat (they will have to be within 3 ft of us) and lack of floor space. I cannot add more Par 38 as the entire sound, lights and band stage power is ONE 20 Amp circuit. This venue was NOT intended for live bands.

Both of these venues provide such a small footprint for the "stage" that we only take ONE speaker stand with ONE JBL MRX-515 for FOH and one JBL MRX-512M for monitor (for the entire band). Our female singer is "half hidden" by the main speaker, her brother (band leader/male vocals/guitar) stands next to her with his guitar slightly in front of her; and the harmonica player has to move at the wine bar every time someone comes in or leaves since he partially stands in the front entry. My elbow rests on the high hats, my headstock is either goosing the female singer or hitting the stucco wall.

The point to the above? I have no idea we could put a lighting "T-bar" or even a tripod stand.

What I have done in similar "space challenged venues" is take the top two "telescoping poles" out of an LTS-1 and sliding them over a round cast base mic stand. Please note that I use 8 to 15 pounds of counter balance weight (from a bar bell set) to prevent tipping. I clamp fixtures directly to the vertical pole. I can probably put one of those (with even more counter balance weight) beside the harmonica player and then set one panel fixture on top of the main speaker. (I have considered attaching a fixture to a spare mic base and simply setting it on top of the one main speaker.)

As for the photos you linked...I LOVE the first photo with the "pink" wash. That is exactly what I hope to achieve. Just enough color to hold the audience's attention and make them believe the event is slightly more than it really is. The blue on the second photo would be the color I would like for our "other" scene if I can get this put together. NICE WORK.

Why do I want more lights if I already have the stuff in my inventory? Well, different tools for different jobs. I "try" to keep my band gear separate from my soundco...that way if I have a sound for hire job and a band gig, we can do both events...assuming I can put together a crew. (We made the mistake of picking one of my sound engineers to be my band's current "sit in" drummer. If he is available, and if we "want" a drummer for the gig, he gets "first call".)

The other issue about using my current lighting gear is simply that stuff is not that simple to set up for one man operation. About half the time, I have to run sound and run stage lighting WHILE I play bass. Something that makes that easier would be very much appreciated.

There is no space for a 24 channel DMX mixer...but I could probably replace the Par 38 with a couple of the 64P LED and even put one on the main speaker and probably one by the harmonica player. (...is Harmonica actually a musical instrument?) I plan to talk to the retailer I usually buy from to see if he has a small, low cost "board" that would work...but if I picked up a couple of LED panels with a UC-3 controller (especially the foot switch model)...well, that would be whipped cream on the chocolate on the ice cream sundae...(hey, I didn't get the stage name "Fat Tony" because I am a skinny litte guy...I ate my fair share of donuts in 30 years of pistol packing)

Anyway, the real reason I want some new lights? I have some spare change that I want to spend on gear. So it is lights or perhaps a new monitor...(don't have enough spare cash for the monitor...so...)

As for "why the ADJ Profile Panel LED"...well in the email that Jingles sent, he pointed out that it fit my stated goals of "stage wash fixture" that also had "UC-3 or similar remote control compatability".

Jingles also suggested that the Profile Panel LED was the most "cost effective panel" ADJ sells.

Jingles also suggested that the ADJ Mega Pixel LED also would be compatable with the UC-3 controller.

Those were the two fixtures that he suggested from the four that I inquired about in my Nov 18 post.

Well, its been fun, but the dog has been in bed for the last 45 minutes and I have been typing away.

g'nite.

Tony Wright, Stillwater OK
Fat, dumb, and happy...

OK, I took one more look and that first photo is a "red" stage wash, not "pink"...obviously, I need to quit eating Frito Chili Pie before bed time...