Help With Placing Lights

hey chris im gonna forward this to a buddy of mine that has done lots of installs. don;t know how long it will take him to respond so be a lil patient ok? welcome to the forums. peace! jingles.

Alright, thats fine. Right now we only have enough money for 1 light anyways, so were not really too close to installing them yet. I am personally hoping we can get atleast 2 Accuspot 575's and the Magic 260 before Easter. So we can use them in the Easter production.

-Chris-

The one thing to keep in mind is that you probably want the fixtures to hang perpendicular to the floor, rather than at hanging at the angle of the steel beam.

The 575's manual says that it can operate in any safe position, but I would have to suspect that mounting a moving head at such an angle could eventually wear parts out faster.

The 575's weigh about 80 lbs each, so I'd also keep that in mind when trying to work out a mounting option.

Just my thoughts...

quote:

Originally posted by LighTech:
The one thing to keep in mind is that you probably want the fixtures to hang perpendicular to the floor, rather than at hanging at the angle of the steel beam.

The 575's manual says that it can operate in any safe position, but I would have to suspect that mounting a moving head at such an angle could eventually wear parts out faster.

The 575's weigh about 80 lbs each, so I'd also keep that in mind when trying to work out a mounting option.

Just my thoughts...

Yup, that was my thinking, thats why I was wondering if it was possible to hang the lights by a pole (as the projector is)?

I knew we couldn't hang them from the steel beam because 1 theclamps would eventually wear out im sure, and 2 because being tilted at an angle permantley cannot be good for the lights.

-Chris-

Simple solution! Plumbing parts!!! just get some metal pipe and some corner joints. Measure out the lengths and hang it up let me draw up a diagram and upload it really quick.


There you go. Paint the pipe any color and just attach it to the ceiling some how(you got to figure that out) we did this at my church(well i didn't i just kinda watched ) and it worked great. As far as hanging the lights at an angle, I use 6 Elation Design Spot 250's on tour and they are all hung at an angle an we have not had any problem so far. Lots of people hang lights horizontally and have no probs so you shouldn't have a prob. but if you do it like i showed up ^^^up there^^^ then you don't have to worry about it!!!

jthtiger

quote:

Originally posted by jthtiger:
Simple solution! Plumbing parts!!! just get some metal pipe and some corner joints. Measure out the lengths and hang it up let me draw up a diagram and upload it really quick.


There you go. Paint the pipe any color and just attach it to the ceiling some how(you got to figure that out) we did this at my church(well i didn't i just kinda watched ) and it worked great. As far as hanging the lights at an angle, I use 6 Elation Design Spot 250's on tour and they are all hung at an angle an we have not had any problem so far. Lots of people hang lights horizontally and have no probs so you shouldn't have a prob. but if you do it like i showed up ^^^up there^^^ then you don't have to worry about it!!!

jthtiger

Okay, thats a good Idea, I'll tell our engineer (my father, he does all the construction stuff) tomorrow about that.

Do you have any idea how thick the pipes would have to be to hold the Accuspot575's? I dont want us to get to weak of a pipe (im very not familiar with plumbing pipes) and it then break.

-Chris-

The global truss piping is 2" in diameter so if your using the clamps that came with the light then get some 2" pipe. Hope this helps. Post some pics when your done and let me see!!!

jthtiger

quote:

Originally posted by jthtiger:
The global truss piping is 2" in diameter so if your using the clamps that came with the light then get some 2" pipe. Hope this helps. Post some pics when your done and let me see!!!

jthtiger

I sure will post some pics, but it wont be a for a while though. Got to save money (anybody want to donate [lol]).

-Chris-

lol fair enough. Good Luck

jthtiger

Hey PanHead,
Jingles told me about your problem. I couldn't have said better than Jthiger! The pipes are a great idea, and I hang lights at angles all the time. Here's a pic of some Focus SPot 250's

sorry about the giant pic!!!!!

Thanks for the reinforcement djbutter22!!! Yeah i dont think you'll have a problem hanging them at an angle. If you want to do that then just cut the pipe that comes down from the ceiling the same lengths. If that doesn't make sense ill draw another diagram. Let me know!

jthtiger

thanks jthtiger and butter!! great job both of ya. peace! jingles!

actually there was one other thing i wanted to mention about placing moving heads at angles. for some companies they will tell you in the user manual which mounting options you can mount that particular fixture in and some will not allow you to mount them sideways on a truss. like this.

i know that is not the case in this install but just figured i would inform you. peace! jingles.

Yeah I really wouldn't recommend you hang lights sideways (although I've seen it done with no problems.) Small angles, I believe, are OK.

jthtiger

Just making sure:
>You want the coolness of having moving head lights that every trendy church in the world possess.
>You want 4 movers, but have money for 1.... You want lighting that will be useful in the future

WARNING I AM GOING TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE

I've done a lot, I mean a lot of work with churches that jump the gun and purchase a pile of DMX crap when all they needed was a follow spot, par cans, and some uplights.

I think a good start for you folks is to purchase more traditional lights like par cans, lekos, and. These will be far more useful five years down the line than a moving yoke that AMDJ will probably discontinue in a year or so.

My suggestion is to purchase a good follow spot for all your plays and concerts. Do a google search for a follow spot called an Altman Comet..... They cost about as much as one of those Accu spot lights.

Here is my reasons why a follow spot would be a good use of your money:
>The lamps are cheap - the ENX lamp costs less than $15
>User serviceable with readily available parts. (I have 4 mighty scans that need no motors, according to AMDJ's part site, they are out of them - Imagine trying to find a ballast or a stepper for those accu spots in 7 yesrs)
>No programming - anyone can learn how to use a follow spot - you will make some 14 year olds day by giving him the important job of running spot)
>They last a LONG time - my Comet follow spot is over 15 years old!
>Can be used in a much larger room
>No installation required
>You can rent them out to other churches.
>Cheap intelligent lights make horrible follow spots!!!

Yeah, one follow spot, don't spend money right now on moving lights. You can do a lot with a pile of par cans and a good follow spot.

I wouldn't start adding intelligent lighting until I had a good "base" lighting system with conventional lights - 8 par cans is not a lot of light. If you want a variety of looks, you can always spend a little money on some more pars and dimmers and do some up-lighting behind the band.

If you need moving lights, you can always rent. In that room you can probably do a descent concert with 4 rental 250 watt spots. You can always rent a set of scanners from a mobile DJ in your area for cheap.

As church production folks, we are called to be good stewards of the money given to the church. Do we want to spend money on something that will be cool for the short term or the long haul?

I know you want lights that will work well in a new building, but I know lighting companies, they will not want those lights in their new system.


*** Note, I am not saying that AMDJ stuff is crap, I love the stuff, I loved my mighty scans when they were working at 100%, I loved my Vaporizer fogger and various sound active paraphonalia. But what these cats need is something that is proven, reliable, and will be cool 10 years down the line - and to be as real as possible, my mighty scans didn't last 5 years, my vaporizer fogger's heater went bad after a few years, and my vertigo has a wierd short. My follow spot is 15 years old and I still rent it out to clients, and they love it.

If you are going to buy some moving lights, maybe look into getting some scanners. Mount them parallel to your ceiling. Scanners generally are cheaper than yokes.

maybe he should look into some elation gear! and tucker i didn't doubt your love for ADJ one bit! lol. peace! jingles.

actually now that i think of it. a few design spots in place of the accu spot 575's would do nicely and they are lower in cost and you can get a ton more features. and they weigh a lot less. about 30 lbs less in fact. and elation has a really good handle on the church or house of worship market. now i'm not knocking ADJ at all. i wouldn't do that but churches isn't really their market. DJ'ing and clubs is their market. for elation their market is churches and tours. psnhead take a look at the elation design spot. peace! jingles.

I guess our topic starter forgot about his thread here...


what a waste of time.

LOL maybe! you know sometimes they just take the info and run! lol. oh well there will be more to come im sure!

I did not forget about my topic, and it was not a waste of time, I never said I wouldn't take your advice, thank you for the advice already given. But more time was wasted going grave digging.

We are actually leaning more towards going with some Chauvet lighting. Such as a Q-scan250 or a Legend 5000X. We can get the 5000X for $200 each. The main reason we are going for AmericanDJ/Elation/Chauvet stuff is, we have some connections with Guitar Center. We have gotten all of our sound/video/lighting from there already.

-Chris-

thanks for the update chris. post up some pics or even better video of the stuff u get! thanks! sincerely,

No prob. Jingles, yesterday we went to Guitar Center. We almost got 2 of the Chauvet Legend 5000X. They had 4 in the back, the guy at the counter could give them to us for $2000 each, and if we bought 4 of them, he could give them to us for $1800 each and throw in Chavuet computer lighting software for free. I dont know too much about Chauvet's lighting software. Does anybody have any comments on their computer software?

Thanks

-Chris-

Haven't tried it, but remember it is Chauvet!

I dont really like chauvet all that much, but im sure it is fine.

jthtiger

lets just say if it was free you will get what you pay for!! lol. i personally love and like using elations compuware or compu live as it is called now. if u want to give it a try download the free trial HERE!
that is a straight download. once you click on it it will start downloading the files. peace! sincerely,

I've used the Chauvet show express software, its a piece of crap - be happy you will get it for free! The manual for the software is like 5 lines long.

Spend a little more time shopping and thinking about your purchase, you can probably save more than $200 per fixture.

Good luck getting product support for those Legends five years from now. Do you think that the Full Sail grad that will sell you the stuff is going to come out to your church and help you install the lights, show you how to program that chauvet controller , or troubleshoot your fixtures as part of his sale?

Another thing, are you going to keep those lights powered on during sermons? There is a church here in town that went to guitar center and bought 2 Qspot 250's, they have to turn them off during sermons because the fan noise is so bloody loud, they can't even use them during plays because they are almost as loud as the dialog on stage.

I am sorry if I sound harsh man, I don't want to be the mean/snobby guy on the message board, I am actually a pretty pleasant guy.

I am the guy that gets called to turn lemons into lemonade! I get called by churches that either compulsively purchase the stuff and don't know how to use it or its been three years and the people that used to know how to make it work have now left to bigger churches - and I have to go there and clean up their mess.

Its one thing to spend $600 buying 2 cheap scanners - you want to go out and spend $3600 on lights that have no history of being great lights besides the word of the sales guy that watched a product video during a product training seminar. Try to consider something that has a proven track record. Example, the Elation Design Spot 250 - live design magazine did a writeup about this light and gave it really great remarks - search liveaudio.com's forums, the light has similar high remarks from end users. The light has been on the market for 2 years now. Another example on something in the cheap range is the Martin Mania SCX 500, do a search at start.prodj.com and there is a pile of threads from people raving about these lights. I am not saying that the legends won't make you happy and accomplish your goals of providing kinetic trendy church lighting.

I just want you to purchase something that has a proven track record and be smart with your cash. Those Legends have been out less than a year - no one has talked about these lights on any message board or gave them a end users review.

Churches should stay out of Guitar Center.

Seriously dude, here is what you can do with $4000....

~1 Follow spot $900
~2 Elation Focus Spots $1600
~12 More Par cans with dimming and 500 watt lamps $1200
~1 DMX operator $100 (maybe mydmx when it comes out, if it is cool enough)
~200' DMX cable $100

The Focus Spots are smaller than the legends, in your new sanctuary they can be used on stage L/R of your drum riser. Maybe you can get 4 good scanners for $2000 to tie you over. Yeah scanners aren't as cool but they will accomplish the same goal of providing movement and static effects. Remember, you won't regret buying a good follow spot. Hang those 12 cans upstage and do a three color back light wash. I suggested the same system in this thread this thread... (with pics) There is nothing like a good par show.

AMEN tucker!! lol!

WOW!!! Enough said!!! You really have a way with long posts dont you tucker! lol! I agree 100% with tucker.

jthtiger

Alright, Thanks Tucker.

I know we will be getting more Par64's to enhance the wash and colors. But we dont need any help with that (they're easy). And I'll check out the forums.

"Spend a little more time shopping and thinking about your purchase" >> Thats kind of why I'm here.


-Chris-

Dude, I didn't know you were from Tampa.....I'm like 6 hours from you....


...back to moving lights.... The site that I normally purchase lights from has three refurbished Design Spot 250's for like $1100 each.

If you are into babying some moving lights, I have 4 old Martin Roboscan 1220's I can sell to you super cheap, I'll even meet half way to deliver them to you.....

They weigh 110 pounds each and require their own 20 amp circuit each to power.... but they will rock a church.

DANG 110 lbs EACH! That is what I call some nice lights. I wouldn't want to do a tour with them though

jthtiger

Which site do you purchase your lights from?

I wouldn't mind those Martin 1220's, but I think they're a bit heavy. I dont know how many breakers we have left. I think maybe only 3. Although, im sure we could move some stuff around, I think we may have some old, un-used ones aswell.

-Chris-

im sorry but no linking to sites that sell gear. you guys will have to conduct that through e-mail. have to follow the rules. im just saying in case a link is posted i will have to remove it. VERY sorry but i have to follow the rules and make sure they are adhered to on the forums, one of my jobs. sincerely,

Sorry about that Jingles Is it alright if it PM's it to me? (I dont like to give out my email).

-Chris-

lol its ok i was jst lettin you both know before i had to do anyhing. also see here is the kicker on this forum you cant send each other pm's. so heres what u can do. u cna put up your e-mail and once u guys have each others info either you or ican go back here and delete it from the message and that way it is gone. prob wont even be up for a good 48 hours and if u space it out kinda like this "james k (at) elation lighting (DOT) com" forum spam bots cant get it. lol! peace!

"The site that I normally purchase lights from has three refurbished Design Spot 250's for like $1100 each."

If you could email the site to me

(cmfs2004 (@) aol (d0t) com


-Chris-

FWIW, I had no intention of posting an outside link.

Cad dude, I will be shooting you an email. I was going to PM you then I realized this new forum doesn't do the PM thing.

No problems folks!

thanks tucker. i wasnt sure if anyone intended but i didnt want to have to take anything down adn have someone mad at me so i just was lettin you all know! peace! happy new year everyone! sincerely,