Help with FC-400

I should also mention that I think I just want the 8 cans to all do the same thing for the washes, and do whatever for the music mode. My physical setup so far is plugging 4 of the par 64 cans into the 4 channels of the dimmer pack on one tree, then linking up the last light of that chain to the first light of the OTHER tree across the stage by a 50' DMX cable, linking the rest of the cans in line (they'd be plugged into a simple Edison strip).

Oh wow, problems, problems, problems.

First, LED Par CANS are DMX-fixtures. They do NOT go on dimmer packs. They have a DMX in and out port. You do not want to plug these into your dimmer packs.

You have the wrong stuff to do what you want.

The FC-400 is for standard Par Cans(any type), ideally.

You're most likely going to want to bring it bakc or bring back the FC-400 system and get a DMX controller(say, a DMX Operator) and maybe a MIDI foot controller(that uses note ON/off instructions) to trigger scenes off the DMX Operator.

Your salesperson really didn't know the products they were selling. Sorry. You need to head back and figure out what to return.

Oh my goodness!
OK, I just called Guitar Center, and somebody else is going to try and help me out. Do you have any recommendations as far as a foot controller? Did I hurt the par cans by plugging them into the dimmer pack? I already turned them on, albeit for a short time (I know, I know; electronics know no time).
BTW, I grew up in Elk Grove, graduated from EGSHS 1973. I consider it my hometown! I'm now located in Salem, MA

Chris, I went back to Guitar Center today. They suggested I try plugging in the footswitch directly into the first par, and then hook up the rest. I did that, and the footswitch really doesn't respond. All lights are on, there's no fade, no chasing, just random changes. No good.
So...I purchased control software MyDMX which I'll run from my laptop, and control it with a Behringer FCB1010 MIDI foot controller. How does that sound to you?

That sounds great! Congrats on your purchase. to get you going check out the video tutorials on you tube.
www.youtube.com/mydmxtech
Sincerely,

Wow, you did a major step up. Let me pat you on the back in congratulations. But your learning curve went way up. I think you can handle it.

The FC-400 is supposed to work with those dimmers and it just bounces back and forth between a few scenes, which rely on Par cans. Plugging the FC-400 foot controller into the first LED can isn't going to do much on its own because typically LED Pars need at least 2 channels to work: A color and a dimmer channel. The FC-400 is definately NOT a workable combination for you, especially with the money you spent hopefully on 8 ADJ 64 LED Pros(which I also have 8 of those). The FC-400 system is a good system, but not suitable for your needs.

MyDMX is a wonderful product and while easy to learn, you're starting from the ground floor, so be patient with yourself. You're gonna screw up, mess up and get lost here and there. Just stay calm and ask questions and save often.

The Berhinger FCB1010 has been mentioned time and time again on this forum as a suitable foot controller. It does work of note on commands, which myDMX uses to trigger scenes(notes to scenes).

You got a good combination. As I said, be patient in learning. First thing is to address your cans, then add in profiles, then you can start doing stuff with them. Thanks to the 3D Visualizer, you can do a lot of your programming work without even needing lights plugged in!

I've been in CA all my life. Moved from the Sac area to SF in around 1978, then to Elk Grove in 2001 before I got married. It's changed a lot. They are building so fast that now the whole area has rat and snake problems and the damn snakes can't keep up with the rats!! Then the economy collapsed. So sad seeing the doomed Elk Grove Mall partially constructed, it looks like it was built up and then abandoned 40 years ago. The Elk Grove Cops are the local SS-types, horrible to deal with! Overall though, crime is low and things are starting to level out after the economic crash and the foreclosure stuff starting to slow down. In general, not a bad place to live.

WOW! Looked at the software, and the YouTube tutorial to start, and I see I have some studying to do!
The first thing I have to confess is that I purchased Venue par 64's (couldn't pass up the deal!)...would I start out by listing them as Generic? I couldn't find the brand under the left column...thanks, guys...you'll be a real help as I try and figure this out.

Elk Grove HAS changed a lot since I lived there (1969 to 1973!). Used to be an A&W at the corner with one red blinking light -- that was the ONLY traffic light in town! The cops were Sheriff's deputies (it wasn't incorporated) who were all very cool...no probs at all. Great place to grow up.
Now...all I need within a short amount of time is a few scenes, and the ability to stomp in some lights-to-music. I'll start small, and get more involved as I learn. Any tips to get me started would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks so very much, and I can't tell you how glad I am to see this Forum!

first of all follow the link at the bottom of my post and make sure you are running the latest version of the software and also download the latest scan library which will have your venue lights.
http://www.americandj.com/pdff.../scanlibrary1209.zip
Secondly i do hope you know that my dmx will not trigger cues to music on it's own you either need midi ( which is what I gather you are doing already) or the fixtures need to have a sound active trait in the dmx functions. Anything else you need to know please feel free to ask.
Welcome to the forums.
Sincerely,

Thanks for the update info; I'll do that this morning!
The par cans have mics built in, with a sensitivity knob. I'm not sure yet how to enable that on the software via the MIDI pedal. I'm still trying to read the manual through before I start poking around.

OK. I downloaded the ADJ New Profiles Aug 25 and the Scan Library 12/09, but I don't see anything about Venue. Is it hidden somewhere, or am I missing something?

Oh, yeah....I have the March 2009 version of MyDMX

Assuming you have proper profiles for those Venue fixtures, you'll want to check the DMX traits in the manual to see if they support sound active mode when in DMX mode.
(a lot of fixtures, including some ADJ fixtures that support stand-alone sound active, do not support sound active in DMX mode)

But, let's operate on the assumption that there is a sound active mode in DMX:

You'll want to make a scene in MyDMX using the lights you want to toss into sound active mode. Then assign the MIDI trigger and you've got it.

Do note that the lights are each behaving in their own sound active mode, there is no master/slave association when using DMX, so I can guarantee they'll be changing differently and at different times. This shouldn't really be a concern if you're into that sort of thing, chances are it should make it more interesting.

Venue is in the generic folder. Sorry forgot to say that.

That's great, thank you! According to the DMX Values and Functions listed, it says in Channel 6 that 224-255 is SOUND ACTIVE. It also notes that when using Channel 6, channel 5 will control the speed of the color changing. Channel 6 also lists some other dimming functions and color mixing from 0-223. I probably won't be able to sit down and really play with this until the Behringer pedal board gets here on Monday. In the meantime, I'll sit down with the laptop and play around with the scenes. Any suggestions you have for me as far as design ideas would be terrific! This is for a 7 piece band inc 2 sax players. It's gotta be relatively simple, since we can't afford a light operator at this time. I've got 8 par 64 cans; are there any other lights you'd recommend? This won't be a DJ show; it's a live band, and we're playing different venues. Can't depend upon trusses or even a useable ceiling. All I have at this point are two trees.

Generic folder!?!!! Hoo boy, I hope I haven't cut myself off at the knees before I start! Well...if they don't perform, I could save up more dough for the REAL cans!! HA!

Take a look at my you tube channel for designing ideas.
www.youtube.com/jingles8302
And no worries ANY dmx 512 light will work with this software. you really don't NEED profiles they are just there to make it easier on you as far as functions and channel layout.
Sincerely,

Well, I know the value of the Venue's is enough to be overwhelming. I've had great results with ADJ and Elation, so I stick with them.

Having said that, there's no reason why the Venue lights can't be supported in MyDMX. Remember, profiles just make the lights easier for us to relate to. A profile is NOT required to use any light.

Now, as far as lighting design, I can't offer much. I would say a general washes would work good. But that gets boring after a while. To break it up, you can do back and forth(full left/full right) or marches or alternating type patterns and other things. The FX Generator in MyDMX can do a lot to help you with this sort of stuff.

Unless your new Venue LED cans aren't working, I see no valid reason to return them.

Only other thing I can recommend is that you're going to want a bit of distance between the stage and the lights, as well as some height. This gives the light a chance to spread out a bit. You don't want to go TOO far out, mainly because the light tends to roll off a bit. Even so, I'm using my ADJ 64 LED Pros from a higher than recommended distance and they are working fine for my big show. Even so, I'm planning a big purchase ofr better LED cans for that application.

I also do not have the option for trussing or anything outside of what I provide(which can be i-beam trussing). I normally rely on my trees.

Down the road, you might want to consider some LED panels or some LED bar-type fixtures. Then again, maybe you just end up with more cans. Right now, you've got a good start. I'd say just stick with that for a while and then see if you need to add on. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. I wouldn't make any new purchases for at least 3 months to give yourself a good evaluation period.

Oh, I figured that...just nice to know it's there, especially for a newbie like me! I'm just a bass player, not a lighting jock, so I'm kinda learning this on the fly. We have a big gig coming up April 10, and I'm in charge of PA and lights. We will see how it goes!

I'm a live sound production company, so it's always my job to be in charge of sound and lights!

(I let the musicians deal with their own issues!)

I'd say that since you know this band, you know how you guys set up. If it works out, and since you're going 4 lights per side, set the lights up with overlap. Left light(per tree) hits the left section of the stage, mid-left hits mid-left/center, mid right/center hits mid-right/center and right hits right. Don't worry if the coverage doesn't match, as long as everyone looks OK.

You can put your laptop and MyDMX dongle on your bass rig, then run your DMX cable to the first tree, then a 50-foot run to the second tree, and don't forget a DMX terminator in the end.

I'd say if you do get seriously into lights, get an Elatio OptoBranch/4. Mega useful device. I recommend everyone get one.

great tips! Thanks so much...
Question: I downloaded Scanlibrary 1209 to my desktop, and found the Venue Par 64 6 ch in there. Will the MyDMX automatically recognize the file and grab it, or do I somehow import it into the program? It's not really apparent. When I opened MyDMX and looked into Scanlibrary, it wasn't there. Do the fixtures have to be hooked up for it to recognize any new presets? I know I could learn how to set up the cans, but honestly at this point, if it's there, I'd rather utilize your preset. Thanks again! Sandy

To answer your question about plug and play/auto-discovery: No. MyDMX will NOT see what is out there. You will need to tell MyDMX where things are. Since MyDMX is not a bi-directional language(it doesn't talk back), there's no mechanism in the protocol for such auto-discovery.

Fixtures DO NOT need to be connected to the DMX cable in order for you to add the profiles. Heck, you don't even need the MyDMX dongle to be hooked up when you program and add fixtures.

For example, I am going to be purchasing(well, hopefully) 8 Elation Opti Tri Pars within 2 months. I need to start doing my programming as soon as I am done being sick, this way when the lights arrive a day or two before the show I need them for, the programming is already done and all I need to do is assign addresses and proper mode assignments and I'm all done. I do the vast majority of my lighting design and programming without even hooking up the MyDMX hardware, I just run it in DEMO mode. In DEMO mode, MyDMX is just as full featured, it just is in DEMO MODE because there's no MyDMX hardware connected. You can do pretty much all your work in DEMO mode, then come showtime, plug in the hardware, launch MyDMX and you're ready to get your show on.

I'm also redoing my entire addressing scheme to make things more logical for me. This may require a ton of extra work. I still have 65 days until my next big event so I'm not terribly concerned.

You can add lights 1 at a time, or whatever at a time. If you have 8 Venue cans and they are all in 6 channel mode, you can certainly add them all at once into the Universe page. If you're not skipping addresses, you can just add them all at once, it's easier and I think it works better in the long run.

For example, I want a solid block of my 8 64 LED Pros in 7 channel mode. I currently have a blank address between each fixture, I want to remove that. I want to repeat that same thing with the new Opti Tri Pars I will soon obtain. I also have 4 Mega Panels and 4 Mega Bar 50's. I run these in 7 channel mode as well. I also have some movers and some color changers and follow spots to move around as well as my fog machines. Its a lot of work.

I'd say just take it slow, one step at a time. I think you're just overwhelmed because you dove in deeper than you expected to. Give yourself the weekend to play around. By all means, don't just sit there and figure it out though, keep asking questions. But, definately screw around a bit, this is the best way to learn it.

I'm finding this all very interesting. I'm not too intimidated (I was at first, I think), and I'm grateful that I have this Forum as a terrific resource!
If MyDMX doesn't have auto-discovery, how do I get the new Scanlibrary into the program? That's what I couldn't figure out. Do I just copy/paste into the program? I couldn't find an "import" command. Thanks again!

for all .ssl files. you need to put them in the scan library folder. If you installed the software on a 32 bit the file path is:
C> program files> mydmx> scanlibrary> relevant folder of profile.
for a 64 bit installation:
C> Program files (X86)> Mydmx> scan library.
Let me know if you can find these on your drive.
Sincerely,

I want to buy a set of PAR64 LED lamps and control them with a footswitch controller similar to the FC-400. Sootergal are you saying that you had to go out and buy MYDMX PC Interface and use a PC on stage AND buy a MIDI FOOT CONTROLLER in order to control your LED Pars???? I just want something like the FC-400 for LED PARs....Mark.

Mark:

Don't. Your plan won't work. The FC-400 system is incompatible with the LED Par64s(any flavor).

So, what we're saying is:
You need a software or hardware DMX solution. Be it a DMX Operator or MyDMX.
You'll need a foot controller, such as the Berhigner FCB1010.
A MIDI interface.

Or, by all means use the FC-400 system and guarantee you destroy your new LED 64 cans.

Nobody makes a stand-alone system like an FC-400 for LED's because LED's are far more complicated. As you'll need something more advanced than channel on/off, you need more stuff to make it happen.

So, you may want simple. You won't get simple for your solution. That's the fact.

Chris...thanks for your response. yes, I get it that the fc-400 is not compatible with the led cans.

I'll look into the midi & mydmx solution.

Question, my little band has two sets of 11X 75 watt lights (3-red, 3green, 3blue 2 yellow on each side...about 800watts per side on stage. I would like to replace them with LED pars. What do you recommend? 64s or 38s? I'd like a little bit more luminance than I have now...so perhaps the equivallent to 1000watts of traditional lighting per side? but I would also like to minimize the number of cans.

I've never seen parLED lights in action and I don't see them spec. with candle-power or luminance spec so I don't really know how much light they produce.

thank-you for your time, I really appreciate it.

Mark

I recommend the 64-par type LED's, but you need more throw because they dont spread super wide so you want some tall stands.

Another option would be Par56 types.

Another option would be the Mega Panels or even the Punch Pros. Thte Mega Panels put out a wider beam than thte Par64 cans but with about the same overall brightness. Macro modes look cool to the audience though!

For a budget, the Profile Panels seem nice. I am tempted to buy 4 of them, even though I have 4 Mega Panels.

The thing with LED's for you are multiple:

First, they are intels(so to speak), which means they have built-in DMX. So, really you don't want them on a dimmer or switcher pack.

Most of the LED fixtures use multiple channels. I have 8 ADJ 64 LED Pros, 4 Mega Bar 50's and 4 Mega Panels. I am planning on getting 8 Elation Opti Tri Pars and then maybe 4 Punch Pros and 4 Profile Panels and maybe some other LED goodies. I would run each individual fixture in 7 channel mode and each fixture would have it's own unique 7 channels so I can maintain control over each one.

It's this multiple channel issue that makes the FC-400 not suitable. The FC-400 only uses 4 channels maximum and only in an on/off type function.

I will say this, you bring up a good concern about the candle power/luminance stuff, and the ADJ lights are not able to compare to many other things. I'm not saying they aren't great, but output has been something sort of glossed over. Elation doesn't shy away from that!

I'm thinking if you just want to go wiht 2 per side, you can get 4 Elation opti Tri Pars totaol. That I am told would emulate about 1500-watts per side atonly 150 watts draw per side. But you may not get the coverage you want, so you may need to get more.

Not saying the ADJ stuff isn't bright, but where and how I have to use them, I can't do certain things without blocking sight lines a lot. When you do film festivals and theater, it really limits your options and hence the light gets dimmer as the throw gets longer. Flying trussing is NOT an option so I have to use T-bars a sizable distance from the stage. I get great spread, but low lumens. So, I augmented the 8 64 LED pros with 4 Mega bar 50's, which are somewhat augmented by the Mega Panels(I use those to light another area of the theater though but they still aim towards the stage).

If you're going to evaluate, do this: See if you can try them in a stage-type environment(Guitar Center's live sound room works good if they have it). Control the entire room, have them focus on you or you move to the light and have someone else take a photo if it WITH and WITHOUT a flash. Repeat for a bunch of lights before you make a decision.