Hello all, need some advice

Your not running dmx for any of these fixtures are you?

No, right now i am just using the sound active function. Once i learn more i may switch them to DMX mode.

Are you taking these down each time, or leaving them up? If they come down each time...keep things as simple as you can. If you can mount the lights to a stand, and remove the crossbar and keep the lights mounted to it without trashing your lights, then you will have that much less to do next time.
If the kids group up anyway, section off a spot of floor for a designated "dance floor", and concentrate your lights to that area. That will keep your lights from being to thinned out, and you can change up from light to light, to keep the show fresh. ;-)
This is personal opinion, but I dont plan to ever "upgrade" to DMX programming. I have a couple of small ADJ DMX sound controllers, and I run my lights to switch boxes. I have two, 8 circuit relay type boxes for the truss, and two direct plug-in boxes for misc. I might not get as awesome a show as with the DMX programs, but my customers and the kids, really couldnt care less. I'll flip different combinations of lights on and off from song to song, or during the bridge of a song...makes a great effect. The rest of the time, the internal controllers are doing their thing.
I shut my DJ business down about ten years ago, because it was getting out of hand. Bigger isn't always better. ;-) I just recently brought it back up...a little older and a little smarter. We'll see how it goes this time. lol
Bottom line... Use the KISS principal. "Keep It Simple, and Stupid.
Good luck!

1. Seems pretty sound to me. Try it out and if you don't like, you can always change it.

2. I clamp to rails a lot, we have a same style gym that my company often does events in. Are the seats blocked off? If they are, it adds more flexibility because you don't have to worry about someone knocking things over/getting into stuff you don't want them in.

3. I would keep them grouped together for better effect. Myself, for these types of events, I normally do room wash/ceiling wash/gobo splash and uplighting. Then I have the 'dance area/floor' for which I concentrate all my effect and movement lighting. Need areas to be able to calm down and cool off. Not everyone is going to want/be dancing the whole time. They will want to take breaks and not have strobes and random light chases going off in their faces all night.

4. Let us know what you think you are lacking or which way you want to go with your light show as well as how much you would like to spend. We can make better suggestions that way. There is a lot out there in the lighting world and a huge price range.

5. To fill that much space, you will need a powerful UV light. Something like a UV Cannon. I once used a 400w UV light to fill a 65'x30' stage from a trim height of 25' or so. The area that you are trying to fill is probably about that size. The other option would be get a series of UV lights like a UV Panel HP and space them out every 30 or so feet. With the signal light, however, getting it up high will be key and don't know if you can do this.

Thanks much for the suggestions. I will try what you suggested. The balconies can be blocked off so any lights i place up there will be safe. As far as lights to come or what i was looking at i am not for sure. I know i want a good UV light and eventually replace the beehive and mini dancers with LEDs. So that would be four lights all together. Money wise, up to 200 or 250 a light would be max i want to spend. So i guess what i was looking at was:
1. A good UV
2. A nice center piece LED light
3. Some type of LEDs to replace the 2 dancers.

Thanks again for any suggestions.

Your gonna need a UV cannon. Depends on how much blacklight you want.
for a center piece i would look at even a revo 4 or a majestic LED. Take a look around our LED section.
Two random LED fixtures? electra led? Revo roll or revo scan?
what i wanna know is what are YOU thinking as far as what light fixtures you want? this is stuff that catches my eye. What catches yours?
Sincerely,

Hey guys, sorry it has been so long since my last post. School has been very busy and we just finished up some of the more furious weeks. I really thank you all for the suggestions you gave. The kids really loved the last dance i gave for them at the beginning of the month for New Years. Another reason i haven't posted lately is lack of funds to get new gear and the fact i am still learning about lighting.

To give an update i have learned a few things about lighting and such.
1. I sectioned off an area of the gym as the dance floor as suggested and focused lights in that area so not to thin them out.

2. The cycle times for the beehive and mini dancers are really lowering the quality in my opinion. I think i need more lights or to replace them to improve the dances.

3. In replacing the beehive (it is my centerpiece) i need a nice center peace around 300 or so dollars. (Open to suggestions since there is new products out.)

4. I figured out where i need to hang each light to get best performance from throw distance (i learned what that was, it is a slow process of learning, but the kids love the dances now. When the school puts on a dance they are always asking if it one of my dances or another teacher's dance)(I told the other teachers they could use my lights for their fundraisers or clubs but none want the responsibility of "if it is broken you are buying"

5. I found i needed a larger strobe so i bought an AMERICAN DJ MEGAFLASH 800W DMX STROBE. i also figured by reading the boards the best way to use it. The kids love when i cut all lights out and use just it for certain songs. I had to mount it high on the balcony railing, about 15 up and aim slightly downwards to avoid a direct into their eyes.

6. i still have not gotten any UV, i want to add it though. I think the kids would love it (i actually bought 100 pairs of bulk cotton gloves to give to the students to dance with once i get the UV i need). But, i have no idea which light would be best. The Cannon has a long warm up from what i understand but the LED is, from what i understand, is not true UV. The LED has a fast turn on though and that is what i need, something powerful, fast to light up and cover about 30 feet out from the DJ table.

I am torn between, the UV wash from elation, Led panel from Cha or the American DJ HP panel.
(any suggestions would be greatly taken)

I know this is a long post (sorry about that)
So i have a few ideas and need help with a few since there is alot of nice new products out right now.

* The dance area is 50' x 44' roughly half a ball court.
* Windows are all covered with black tarp to keep dark.
* Still using same lights except i replaced the lil strobe with the 800w one.
* Not using any DMX, just sound active (am still learning) all plugged into the power panel.
*Using the sound system of the gym (very nice) plugged into my computer. (i am still new to this and am using a free downloaded DJ software, it is doing ok so far.)
*almost forgot, we cant use fog machines due to school policies, i know it sucks i have tried to get it reversed but no luck so far.
* Light alterations run in some of the following patternes (again i can just turn them on and off right now)
1. All on without strobe.
2. Beacon is used when i throw in a siren effect on some songs and such.
3. two electras are usually on all night.
4. 2 electras and duel gem
5. Beehive and minidancers with electras.
6. strobe on by itself (only time electras are off)
7. electras only, scanning to slow music.

This sound ok?
Ok now my questions. I need a new light before feb. 19th (next dance) i will have plenty of time to set up lights and such.

I need either a cool new center piece to replace the beehive or some UV. which do you think the kids would like best. (I have been saving since November and can spare the purchase. This is out of my pocket but if it will give the kids more enjoyment i don't mind volunteering my time and such.) I can spend 400 to 450 dollars on either a centerpiece or i figure two UV panels.

Thanks for any help and suggestions. All are welcomed.
Ya all have a nice day and stay outta the snow.

If you want the true UV look, you are going to have to stay away from UV filters (cold mirror, wood glass, etc) and LEDs. The Elation UV Wash and the American DJ HP Panel are basically the same, just the AMDJ version is larger and more powerful. They both also have instant on times unlike the UV cannon.

Now, will one HP Panel or couple of UV Washes fill a 50'x 44' area? No. Maybe one HP Panel at each end or something like 4 UV Washes spread around the area.

Cool, thanks so much for the fast reply. I am out of school today due to weather so i am doing some research for Feb 19th. I see what you are saying with one.
how about this. The balconies are about 15 feet high. The gym is what you call an old band box style. with the wooden bleachers right next to the court. I mean if you have to go from one side to the other during a game you are walking on the court and have to time it when you move lol. So it is about 54 feet from one balcony to the other (two balconies run the length of the floor on each side.)
What if i clamped one 15 feet up aimed slightly down into the dance area on each side. would two Hp panels from American DJ do the trick? So two would be used. Thanks again.

Also i was looking and reading on some centerpieces. I found the Sunray II and Starball II. In the description it says the starball can be placed on a table. Can the Sunray as well? I kinda like it better and was wondering if i secured it to a table if it would look ok. Anyone have seen this or done this? Thanks again i will check back in few hours. Thanks for advice SerraAva

I think two should do it or be real close to doing it. They are fairly powerful, just not as powerful as the UV Cannon. The UV Cannon doesn't cover as large an area as the HP Panel does either. I use Wildfires a lot, but the production is timed so that they are used beginning of shows or acts. Or we turn them on and time it so that they are fully on by the time the lights need to be turned off. I have also been thinking about getting a DMX Iris for them, but they are really costly.

Hey guys i think i have narrowed it down abit. I think i am going to wait on the black light for this next dance and do more research. I want to replace the beehive due to its cycle time.

i have come to two possibilities. Tell me which you think the kids would like best.

Majestic LED or the Dekker LED (it will be mounted 12-15 feet up on balcony)

Secondly i am going to get a centerpiece to spice it up some. But it needs to be able to mount to a table until i can get away to mount higher.
So do you think a Sunray II or a American DJ Roto Balls VS MK2 will be ok mounted on a table temp wise?

Lastly will i need a haze machine to make the beams pop abit? (is it really needed cause if so I can sneak one in. I may be in admins office Monday lol) Their main concern is setting off fire alarms but i have read that a haze machine can be used a little without doing this.

So Majestic or Dekker $200.00 +/-
Sunray II or Rotoballs $150.00 +/-
_____________________
$350.00 +/- Total
If needed can i get a decent hazer for 150 or so that could maybe show the light beams 10 or so feet out from fixtures?

I can squeeze 500 spent total if needed.
Tell me what ya ll think. If i can get the lights to pop some like in the videos the kids would love it.

(Thanks again SerraAva. I am sorry that i responded before reading your post. I thankya for the info on the UV panels. (I have looked at wildfires, AWESOME, but too much for me lol)
I may wait on the UV though and get them for last dance in April. Maybe by then i can put maybe 4 up, just to make sure.
Or would you wait on the centerpiece and possible hazer to go ahead and try two UV panels? I am knew and not for sure which the kids would like best.
Thanks again

Well, a hazer will give much more of a club feel. I think that would be the best effect you can get for the money. Makes all lighting look better all around. So I would defiantly look into that. Just make sure you don't have laser sensors in the gym in which the party takes place so as to not set off any alarms.

UV is cool, but not sure how effective it will be. Since you say they really like the strobe effects however, the might also really like the UV effects as well. You can even use strobe and UV at the same time for some cool effects.

roy i would like to ask you to refrain from posting prices on gear on these forums. your prices above are ok however we have a VERY Strict MAP policy (minimum advertised price) that we adhere too. So in the future please just post retail or slightly lower or combined total and not individual fixture prices. Thanks.
Sinceely,

Thanks SerraAva...sorry bout that jingles i forgot. will watch it from now on.

So Serra would ya look into...

1. A hazer and possible majestic or dekker or...
2. Hazer with two UV panels (and use hazer to improve the lights i already have?)
3. Sunray II or rotoball with majestic or dekker? (waiting on UV panels and hazer for month or so.)

Or would you go a totally different route?

Personally, I think that whatever you do, you should add a hazer. You can see how much it adds to a show below:


I can also post a video of some haze in action as well. A hazer makes the lights simply look better and allows for some really cool effects. Chris said something along the lines of he didn't know how he was doing lighting without a hazer when he got one. Just makes the lights so much more dimensional and versatile.

That is way cool. that is what i am missing then. i want the beams to be like that. I see what ya are saying now. i also think the kids would think it was all new with a hazer showing them better.

Can you tell me a decent one that could fit my situation with the 50 foot area sections off. The gym ceiling is about 50 feet high and there are no laser senors in it. Could i possibly use one without setting the alarms off?

I likie da hazer, very cool.
Ohh would it improve the beehive enough that i could wait awhile before replacing it?

priority one now is getting a hazer...ok i gonna research some. I check back in little bit

thanks again.

A few things about the hazer:

1: Make sure you have permission. Make sure where you're going to use it, they are OK with it. Always good to have permissions and there won't be any problems, administratively or with any sort of alarm systems.

2: Don't go cheap here. The Elazion HZ-300 is a chunk of change, but worth it. I have one, I love it! Well worth the money.

3: Water based vs oil based. Bottom line is that the oil-based fluid has better hang and better overall performance. The water based one still looks fantastic, but has shorter hang time. Water based leaves no residue(so they say) but the oil-basd fluid will leave a residue that can add up over time. Cost differences are negligible. I chose water based, as the shorter hang-time has additional benefits outside of my requirement for no residual mess. The HZ-300 works with both.
BUT: once you go oil, you're done, you'll need to stick with it until you can run a cleaning solution through the hazer.

ALSO: haze fluid lasts a LONG time. I ran mine all day and barely a dent in the consumption of the reservior.

ALSO: The HZ-300 is DMX controllable but also comes with a wired remote, which can work just as good depending on your needs. I do need DMX control, most folks do not.

Serra Ava is right about what I said, the hazer opened up a whole new world for me when it comes to lighting, and I'm an audio guy.

The thing that is cool about haze is that many people might not even know it's there, but it's there the whole time and makes those lights really pop. Fog is cool too, so don't let me knock that, but the puff of fog doesn't last as long but definately has its own purposes. Both can work very well together.

Whatever you do, buy a QUALITY unit, you'll really appreciate the difference it makes.

I would check out the AMDJ Haze Generator for the cheapest option. However, keep in mind that the amount of space you are talking about, it will take about an hour and 40 minutes for the Haze Generator to fill the area. Depending on the air handling in the room, it can take much longer.

With that in mind, I would seriously look towards Antari for a hazer. They cost more, but also put out a lot more haze. For example, the HZ-300 does 1,700 cubic feet per minute vs 1,000 on the Haze Generator. That cuts the time to fill the room to less then an hour, again, depending on air handling. The other major advantage of the Antari hazers is their ability to run oil based or water based. Some people complain about oil based (smell is the big on). Oil can also leave thin residue over surfaces and equipment over time, which can becoming damaging. Oil looks nicer and hangs longer however. The ability to run both is great.

I personally have an HZ-500 which I love and keep thinking about grabbing another every time I use it. Check here for a review I did on the unit. Its most likely out of your budget, but still a good read I think. Personally, I would save up my money and go for the HZ-300 if I were you. More flexible with oil or water based fluid, much greater output, and a much greater tank capacity which means it has to be filled a lot less often.

Thanks much for replying. i am glad i spoke with ya all first. I am going to wait and save, then once i get the hazer i will look into which lights need to be replaced.

My problem is i don't see any hazer being able to handle the entire gym with the air or heat on. I wonder if the American DJ haze generator could at least put out enough haze to show the beams somewhat near their source. The only reason i think of this is cost of the nicer units and then finding out they wont work. They are nice though.
I have roughly two and a half hours before each dance to set up so the time mentioned of the 1000cfm one may work, but again i don't know with the air movement that Serra Ava mentioned.
But i am going to wait on the centerpiece,majestic and uv panels until i can decide on a hazer.

thanks on info of water vs oil too Chris Pickett and other valuable advice.

thanks guys, back to more research.

Check out my web site for snaps from an event on December 12, 2009. not great, but might help. I used the HZ-300 in a theater that seated(but we didn't fill) 580 seats. I did start the hazer running 2 hours ahead of time, but that was my plan anyways. Since I'm no math wizard(and I admit my math skills are lacking, but my wife has a math minor, so nyah!), I wanted to fill the room with THIN haze(say, 40% capacity of the hazer). Worked fine.

Regarding smell: I didn't notice much with my water-based haze fluid. I will say this about fog though, as fog tends to bother me a bit. I tend to not like to use fog and if so, only upon demand and sparingly. I will be buying a real fogger soon though.

In your case, screw DMX for the hazer, you can always plug that in later if you want. Get in, plug in the hazer, dial it in and ignore it the rest of the night. Now, get you other stuff set.

I asked around a lot of people about hazer, looking at the ADJ one and the Chauvet one. Sadly, I could not find anyone saying anything positive about either unit. For a little upgrade in cost, you can jump up to Antari and get a lot more for the money.

Now, I won't know how UV works with haze until I try it next month, but it's largely irrelevent, as it will be fine. I also agree with how you're going about this: Buy hazer and wait and see. If you have more experience, you'd have more knowledge and would know more ahead of time.

I find all my lights look better with haze. But high-tech FX that shoot beams really rock with haze. Items like the Revo kick serious butt with fog though, as a Revo shooting through some thick fog is really cool. For my wash lights, the haze doesn't help so much, but even so, it still helps.

School gyms can range from horrific to over ventilation, and can vary from year to year and even month to month depending on what is going on with maintenance. If you have stronger ventilation, you'll have to run the hazer harder and longer, which is fine, they can do that. If you want ongoing haze at highest levels, you'll want to stick around 75-80% so the unit won't need to go into a thermal cycle.(normal, nothing to worry about).

Please also keep this in mind: Serra Ava IS a lighting person. I'm an audio person. His need for an HZ-500 is way more justified than me spending that kind of money. Both are fantastic units. But we definately agree the HZ-300 is the way to go for you.

Another thing: Get cases for your stuff. I'm trying to budget cases for my ICE-101(ground fogger) and HZ-300. Stuff with cases lasts a LOT longer!

Thanks again for the help. I have been looking around and reading some and i have a question. I looked at the HZ 300 you was speaking about and then i found this..MBT Haze Pro HZ300. It is a little less than the other i seen. Is this one the one you was speaking about or was it the Antari HZ-300. They both look the same to me.

If it is not the same do you know if the MBT one is any good?
Thanks again, i really want to get a hazer so i am trying to find best deal.

Thanks
Roy

Hey Chris and Ava i knwo i am probably beginning to annoy you with these questions, but i do thankya for the advice. You are helping me save money and time and being a teacher money is a big thing lol, especially with this coming out of my pocket. Let me ask you this. I am going to save and get the better hazer that you suggested and i am not going to get any new lights until i see how they look with hazer.

My situation is this. The dance i would like to make better for the kids is this Feb 19th. The hazer will take until April at the earliest to get.
These are my questions and again i thankyou.
1. If i can get it approved to run a fogger very sparingly would that at least improve my lights for the kids somewhat?
2. And secondly if so which kind would be nice for the gym i described. (I could use one anyways for my haunted house class fund raiser i do every year., i have always had to borrow one for that lol.)

Thanks again and you all don't know how much i do thank you for the advice. I am completely new to this. I run the DJing for the dances to save money for the kids and it is really fun so i am thinking about getting a better laptop to improve that, but becoming completely mobile will take alot of research and long time to make sure i do it right. thanks again and have a good night.

Both Serra Ava and myself are recommending the Antari HZ-300 units. While the MBT unit might be the same, I can't speak authoritatively. I am making all my lighting purchases ADJ or Elation until further notice(although I do have some Chauvet fixtures as well).

Now, onto the wait until April thing.... I'm always trying to get people to save money. In this case, the MBT is cheaper. Still, I am recomending the Antari unit because I feel it's the better unit. I can always save money going with cheaper products, but I have to weigh that against "what are my hidden costs". Case and point, I saw a competitor's product for the ADJ Mega Panel for like $80 cheaper. I SO wanted to get those, but I have issues with that brand and never issues with ADJ products. The extra money means less down time.

So, to the fogger solution. Well, I can't recommend anything super specific. If you want to do it on the cheap, ADJ makes the Fog Storm 700, which is super affordable and has a wired remote. I have 2 or 3 of these. The FS700 is a slightly re-packaged Fog Storm 700. These aren't too big and are not hard to get and not expensive at all. For extra money, you can order a wireless controller kit for it, which consists of a wireless receiver that plugs into the control port, and a car-alarm type fob remote trigger. Works good. I have this, I like it. The idea here is that it doesn't cost too much and you can re-deploy it later and not have to borrow one again. While it is a budget hit, it's not a big buget hit and should be able to be absorbed.

You WILL need to buy fog fluid. Many retailers who carry fog machines carry fog juice as well. ADJ makes there own, I have a fresh gallon of Chauvet stuff, and I think Guitar Center calls theirs "Black Gold". Of course, ADJ recommends using ADJ juice, Chauvet recommends Chauvet juice and Black Gold recommends you buy them and pour it on your fogger. It's best to stick with recommended fluids as much as possible though. This stuff isn't all that expensive either. When you get into the higher end gear, the amount goes down while the prices jump up.

Will the Fog Storm 700 work? Well, yes and no. It will definately do the job as you want it near the lights. It does have a short blast time before recharging(all foggers do something similar), but also has mandatory duty cycles where regardless, you're not going to shoot any fog. I was screwing with mine for Halloween and I ran into these issues. Still, did the job and it was readily available for use.

What is better, the remote control option or the wired remote? It depends on what you want to do. Since I want to trigger mine from inside the house, wireless made more sense. When my brother in law borrows it for a party, again, remote control makes sense. If you're keeping it near you, then really, just place the wired remote near you, there's no sense in spending the money on the wireless option.

The problem you'll have is the fog blasts themselves. You can do frequent small ones, or larger ones, but you don't want to do too much at any one time. The ventilation will dictate what you do. I'm sure with what fog you use, you'll have satisifed kids who won't know any better anyways. I'm sure regardless they'll have a good time. The fogger WILL help, just not constantly. You'll burst, it will dissapate, and then you repeat the process. Sometimes a bigger blast, sometimes a smaller blast.

Your worse case scenario right now is if you have to mail order one of these, but you've got like 3 weeks to get the unit to try out. Heck, if you were close to me I'd probably just loan or rent you my hazer. But I'm clear across the country.

Your only hurdle will be are you allowed to run fog. That's about the only thing holding you back. Get clearances in writing before buying anything. Once you pour fluid in, you OWN IT, so if you change your mind, you have to sell it yourself. No sense in spending money if they say "no fog or haze".

Again thanks very much Chris and i do appreciate the thought of the hazer. Truely appreciated. I just want to make sure the kids have a good time. I have taught here 7 years (went to school here long ago) and would do anything for em. I will go the route you suggest with the Antari and not worry bout the other. Your advice sounds solid. Ya i can afford a hit for a low end fogger right now, but i will as you suggest get permission first and make sure i can use it and save for the nicer unit for later. (I may end up doing our prom at least light wise.)

Our town is a small town, just near 1100 people in it and my school i teach at is only 305 students preschool to 12th grade all in one building. Our slogan is "Small School, Big Experience." So with it being a small town our fire department is a small volunteer one (sorry got a lil Jim Bean beside me lol) so i will call my buddy and inform him, if the school agrees to let me use the fogger that is. His daughter is in my 10th grade class so he may be there anyways as a chaperone.

Thanks again and have a good night out there
Roy

I like learning new things, this is very cool

Well, you certainly got your heart in the right place. A teacher's salary is not really enough considering what you people do for a living, but that's unfortunately how it is.

I was "forced" to get a fogger to be "competitive" with the bottom feeder sound companies. My first fogger, an ADJ Fog Storm 700, was unfortunately somewhat defective and ADJ shipped a replacement. The fog smelled burning due to whatever was wrong with teh fogger. I bought a replacement because I needed something right away for another event that in turn cancelled. I also bought an ADJ party pack that included the FS700 fogger. Fog and me have stayed distant for the most part, with a brother in law borrowing the one opened fogger for a party thrown at a friend's house annually(until recently).

As of, let's say October of 2009, I became involved in an organization of which I am now a key and critical member of. They bought a fogger. They expected it to do multiple functions, such as ground fog(via a cooler system that you can find plans for on the internet). I wanted to add in haze, knowing it would give the entire production a "film grainy" look. So, I saved up and got the ICE-101 and the HZ-300. Couldn't really do anything with these until show day. Wow, what a difference, and that's about all I can say.

The kids won't be expecting much. First off, they are kids. Second, small town, so they won't be expecting much again. Whatever you can do, they'll enjoy.

The problem you'll have is you'll start spending all your money on lighting. In my case, I blow it all on gear for recording, audio, video and lighting. I'm taking it from all directions!

Other than my Mega Panels, I'd say my favorite purchases are the Cascade Fat Head II mics I recently ordered, and the Telefunken M-80 I got in 2009. 2008 saw LOTS of goodies come in.

Let me just say that I think you're going to spend a LOT of time playing with lighting. Go LED and save on the electric bill!

A fogger running at low power won't work as well. Chances are, the HZ-300 can put out as much haze as the fogger in question can put out fog. We have 3 X-310's which are Fazers, fogger/hazers. Really what they are is a fogger that can run at a low power to basically emulate fog. It does not haze anywhere near as well as a hazer does.

Using the example listed above as well, the HZ-500 puts out 2,800 cubic feet of haze per minute. At full blast (which means it is fogging and not hazing), the X-310 3,500 cubic feet per minute. When we use them for haze, its around 10-20% output, or 350-700 cubic feet per minute. Anymore then that, it looks like fog. And once again, it won't be as even and the particles won't be as small. It has a tendency to look like clouds or real soupy. Talent also tends to complain it looks too thick on stage when out in the house it looks just fine.

Well, most foggers that I have used(and it's not many) seem to be either "on or off", but if I recall, the producer's cheap fogger has a variable output based on the remote and DMX control.

The point is though that it comes down to the right tool for the right job. Fazers are also expensive. Even so, I'm still planning one as a future purchase, the exact model Serra Ava is talking about. I think the prices I saw for the X-310II were higher than the HZ-300. But for the original poster's events, I think a true hazer is definately the right gear for the job.

It's good you laid out the fazer into the discussion though. I was looking at those as "gee, best of both worlds" sort of device, but it's not. It's a specific type of device with a specific type of application. It's not a great fogger, it's not a great hazer. It's more of a "big fog" effect, as if a thick hazing device to emulate REAL fog. Knowledge is power. You steered me off the X-310II for what I was thinking to use it for, and I'm thankful for that. Still, I have another need for it, so it will be a future purchase. Now that I understand and know the right function for this, it makes it a proper purchase.

If he is going to get by for one show with a low-end fogger, he'll just have to hit it here and there old skool style. Won't be perfect, won't be ideal, but the kids will still love it and will for the most part be more than acceptable.

hey all, figured i would give am update. I spoke with the administration and maintenance and both are going to let me look into using a fogger/hazer for the dance. I had to push it back to March but that will help with raising funds. The Head maintenance guy called the fire alarm company and they said we could conduct some type of test with them. Apparently they are interested to see if it would set them off as well. So they said that when i got the machine to tell them and then turn it up full blast and fill the gym with smoke to see what it will do. So the hazer is a go which is cool.

But strangely i had a request to have bubbles at the next dance. So i was wondering if these were worth getting for the crowd.

Anyone use them at dances or have suggestions on it? Are they worth having and if so what is a nice little one to look into. Thanks and have a good night.

Sorry guys didnt see the recent post. Thanks for the advice on foggers/hazers. Reading them got me to thinking. I have seen fog that stays on the ground. I dont want to sound stupid but is this a market made type fogger or a homemade adaption. I have read into some of the foggers and some say they make fog that stays low. so i figure those must be the type. Have you all worked with these types of fog? Do the kids seem to like fog low?

Thanks
Roy

Thanks for your update. The main thing is that hopefully any sort of smoke detection system doesn't trigger the sprinklers or any sort of fire suppression system(oh god, NO, not HALON!!). Chances are some elements can be isolated and prevented from doing their job at least for testing.

Smoke(as in fire) tends to be much hotter than fog, so if it's a heat thing, you should be fine. If it's based on reflection off particles, well,... At any rate, alarm companies need to be aware of this sort of thing and should be able to adapt their gear if need be.

But, unless you're ZZTop, I wouldn't worry about being able to fill the room to bursting with fog. You're not spending that kind of money. At the end of their show, they FILLED a 2000-seat venue up to CHOKING(opinion) with fog. Fire marshall was there, I was standing next to him. No alarms went off, he had no issue with it outside of it was hard to see for people to get out for a few minutes but otherwise said and did nothing. You got to spend BIG BIG insane dollars for this to happen, compared to what you're planning to spend. You'll be hitting duty cycles way before you fill the room.

The hazer will "never" fill the room. By that, it will never seem full like a room full of fog will. Since it runs all night, it will fill the room probably in an hour or 2 before the event, and then just keep it running all night at the same levels. Run it at 70% to get things going, then drop it down to 30-40% output for the evening(if desired, you can leave it at 70% if you want or need to).

Bubbles: OK, first off, NO STRIPPER POLES!! Just kidding, this is a high school dance. I won't say anything for or against bubble machines. ADJ and Elation make various models of various output levels. Bubbles should not set off any smoke alarms. Spend what you feel is right. Of course, the Elation units offer more output, but we're talking a school dance here.

Ground fog/low laying fog: Yes, there are home-brew things involving coolers, wire cages and dry ice/ice and holes cut into coolers and shooting a fogger through it. That's one way to go. Or, you can get a dedicated ground fog machine, such as the Mister Kool by ADJ, or the ICE-101(which I have) by Elation. From what I understand, these work by first vaporizing the fog into the small particles, but then cooling it so it doesn't rise. Of course, as it warms it rises up. They work good. Just depends what effect you're after. I strongly recommend a dedicated machine though. In a show I'm working on, we have multiple scenes that involve and need ground fog. One character almost always has fog, another scene is in a cooler so we need "ice" fog. This is the same show we use haze and fog in. I could even incorporate bubbles but I don't want to spend the money. There was discussion of snow machines too.

For your event, I'd say ground fog is not something to waste time on. Maybe in the future. Ground fog the entry area and the walk-way for the processionals(as applicable) if you want. Ground fog the stage or around the stage, but outside of it being a focussed item, no, not worth it. The fog is a better option.

Keep us posted. Best of luck to you.

What about the really simple, cheap method? You could buy four or six corded florescent fixtures from a hardware store, that use two 40watt bulbs each, and buy eight or twelve 40watt black-light bulbs respectively to put in them.

If I'm understanding your description of the gym correctly, there are two balconies with railings flanking either side of the dance floor. You could get some mounting chains and hang the fixtures from the railings, aiming mostly downward at a angle, sitting against the half-walls (or whatever's immediately below the balconies' railings). By 'at an angle', I mean width-wise so the tubes are horizontal, not length-wise.

At 80watts a fixture, they should be able to cover a significant amount of ground.

Edit: Of course, the main problem with this plan is increased time for assembly and tear-down. If money's not much of a consideration, get real gear that'll require less work. If money is a consideration though, this'll free up some to spend on that centerpiece! :-)

Balconies were never mentioned in this discussion.

Also, tube-type blacklight fixtures are cheap in the first place. Your idea isn't much of a cost saver as far as savings are concerned. About all your idea would do is save a tiny bit of tie by using pre-made fixtures that hold more tubes at once. Definately a time saver but a bit too much in one location in my opinion.

Considering the bulk of the conversation was about fog and haze in a gym wiht a serious question about the smoke detection system, I'm juts as a loss where balconies and blacklighting camae into the discussion. Then agian, I do other stuff outside of this forum so perhaps a missed something.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pickett:
Balconies were never mentioned in this discussion.

Also, tube-type blacklight fixtures are cheap in the first place. Your idea isn't much of a cost saver as far as savings are concerned. About all your idea would do is save a tiny bit of tie by using pre-made fixtures that hold more tubes at once. Definately a time saver but a bit too much in one location in my opinion.

Considering the bulk of the conversation was about fog and haze in a gym wiht a serious question about the smoke detection system, I'm juts as a loss where balconies and blacklighting camae into the discussion. Then agian, I do other stuff outside of this forum so perhaps a missed something.

Are you sure that you're replying to the correct thread? Both balconies and UV lights were mentioned in the original post, and about every second one thereafter. ;-)

I disagree that this would save time at all... it would not because you would have to build each fixture, attach a method to hang them, etc. The only advantage that this idea would have is cost savings.

I would post average prices for each fixture and bulb, but I think I would be running afoul of forum rules, so I'll just say that it would be roughly half the price of 'real' DJ blacklights.

Cheers!

Oh, well, my bad. I'm addressing the immediate question at hand, while doing video editing and preparing for gigs and dealing with clients with data com issues.

Assuming that blacklight tubes are readily available(I can never find them), I would think with the price savings coupled with shipping, it's a break even. Special handling, extra boxing, nuisance charges. Do you know of a mainstream place that normally carries the tubes?

Once the units are attached, it's not that big of a deal. Designing a safe, reliable, durable and repeatable method of hanging is definately a good thing. It could be as simple as drilling holes to attach clamps, but I don't like that idea as it's not as accessible. Adding a bracket or two(or more) to attach clamps to would be ideal, as well as if it is durable enough to be chained/suspended in place.

Also, if these pre-built fixtured had some sort of cage or covering to protect the tubes, that would be good too. I'm sure these things come in standard sizes, as do the UV tubes.

Hey guys hope the weather has not been too bad for ya all. Here in Ky we have missed last 4 days due to snow. I finally got enough and ordered the ADJ 1200, i figured it would do the job ok. We will see when it comes in. It came with one free gallon of fog juice, but as i use it i want to make sure i am using the best possible. So which juice will be best with it? Thanks again for all the help. I am still kinda asking some of the kids to see how many would enjoy the bubble machine before i invest in it. On a side note, the AD and assistant principle (a friend of mine since 3rd grade) is thinking of some things we can do for the students this summer to keep them in town and out of trouble in the bigger town a few miles over. So we are thinking of some permanent lighting for the gym. I dont know what he has in mind but if we do it there could be some really nice things put in. So again i thank ya for the advice and keep it comin. Ya all have a good week end. Ohh the dance had to be postponed again due to make up games and such from missing school, so i hope we get it soon the kids keep asking.

Weather is strange in Sacramento, but mostly good.

OK, fog juice: Everyone has an opinion. The companies that make foggers are really intended to be used with their fog juice. There are some good third party brands. The main thing is that if you use something, it's best to stick with the same type of juice. Think back to the hazer stuff. If you go water-based, stick with water based. If you go oil-based, stick with oil based.

Let me go into a short story. I bought an ADJ Fog Storm 700 and a gallon of ADJ fog juice. Fogger had a problem and went off to service. I could not wait for a replacement so I went through Musicians friend and ordered another Fog storm 700 and it came with a gallon of Chauvet juice.

Now, I'm not going to talk about my issues with Chauvet, they are well known. But, it's been 6-7 years now and I haven't opened that juice, and my ADJ gallon still has plenty in there, but I bet I should toss it and replace it. But my refusal to use the Chauvet stuff isn't tied to me not liking Chauvet, its mainly due to the fact that there's been no reason to open it. I don't exactly burn through fog juice.

I frequently see Black Label juice at Guitar Center. I've also heard of another company that I think was called Frog Juice or something like that.

ADJ recommends ADJ products. Elation recommends Elation products. Chauvet does the same thing. So do other brands. I personally prefer sticking with the recommended product. I will be ordering some DMX cables and hazer and ground fog fluid this week(and another non-related item) just to ensure I have ample inventory, even though I know I don't need it right now.

Bubbles: Just took the kids to see Disney on Ice, latest show. Heavy bubble machine usage on all 4 corners of the main flown truss. There was an outter set of trusses as wel. But, using it for an effect in a show and as a DJ effect can be two entirely different things.

If it was me, and I had to go with a bubble machine, I'd probably go Elation and stick with a mid-range model. Then again, the ADJ one mi

Thanks again for the info. I had another question and i know it is off this topic but i figured it would be just as easy to post here as to open a new one. My question is this. I have two Electra DMX lights. Could i hook them up in a master/slave combination while using the sound active mode, or would i need to use them with the DMX. I dont know anything about DMX lighting yet so i was just wondering. All my lights are used with sound active mode.
Thanks and seeya all later

I'm not downloading the manuals tonight, I'm fighting other issues.

I do not know if the Electra LED DMX lights support a "sound active" mode when in DMX mode. But, you're not using them in DMX mode, which limits your options. Check your manual to see if sound active is supported in DMX mode.

If they run in master/slave mode, you need to run them off a dimmer pack, with the channels set to SWITCH mode. Ideally, you'd run them off the same channel on the dimmer, which equates to a DMX channel. Now, even though these lights are DMX capable, you want to NOT connect DMX to these lights FROM your DMX control signal, you want to run a DMX cable between them only.

Ideally, it sounds like you need to move to a DMX control situation. I would recommend MyDMX, mainly since I think you'd love the 3D Visualizer, it's easy to use, highly programmable, and would let you "emulate" a lot of "sound active" type stuff without actually needing sound active. For a bit more than the cost of a DECENT ADJ DP-DMX20L dimmer pack, you can get MyDMX and have yet another world of options open up to you.