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OK, so I'm fairly sold on the Par64's. I did a show last weekend, and the lighting guy brought out 8 beat to crap Par64's with analog dimmer packs. 2 T-stands, 4 lights each, 1 T-stand per side. Did a fairly good job lighting up the stage. Lights were probably 20 feet or more out from stage. Could have been better, but got the job done. I'm trying ro edit the video and get that on my web site.

So, my questions are same as usual. But now more serious since I'm looking to do the same thing, except with LED Par64's and of course DMX-512.

Stage in this case was 24X16(WXD), nothing major, kind of average for events I've been doing recently. Wondering how well 8 Par64 LED's would work for this type of an outdoor environment. I plan to use indoors as well.

Wondering if there is an LED Par38 white bulb of similar lumens to replace the traditional bulbs I've been using for those. I'm looking for affordable solutions for that as well.

Main issue is cost, as the LED Par 64's are costly. Got to take that into consideration.
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Those don't really seem to address my question, since I'm not trying to preserve mt 32 Par38's for this application unless output is increased, as well as throw.

Also, the bulbs you listed seem to be overy costly, I mean, Elation is adding some intelligence into the bulbs that I personally am unwilling to pay for. For example, I would not need the remote, but I'd rather just buy the bulbs in R,G,B and white to mix and match on my own in such cases.

I'm more thinknig of the DMX color mixing LED Par64's, and how 4 of these full on would compare to a set of traditionally bulbed Par64's(no gels) as far as lumens, throw and dispersion.

I'd say if ADJ comes out with a rather "brainless" Par38 LED Bulb that is around 1600 Lumens(or whatever the typical 150-watt Par38 bulb runs), that would be way cool. I'm all into saving wattage, and would give up some lumens for low power consumption.

But seriously, the Par 64,s I would want to hear about a fair real-world shoot-out between a full on LED(all channels color channelsa t 100%) vs. a non-gel'ed Par64 with a regular Par64 bulb, and compare them side by side. That is what I can't seem to get.

With a MSRP of $270+/ LED Par64, a set of 8 would set me back $2000, while I can get individual Par 64's for like $50-60 each, which after I add a dimming pack, I would come out with a budget of under $1000 for the same quantity of lights, but at tremendous power draw(2 20-amp circuits as opposed to 1 barely used circuit). I doubt actual retail prices for these fixtures is under $200/unit for an LED ParCan64.

I also have to weigh in IEM's(in ear monitors) budget as well as multi-track recording hardware budget in there as well for my 2007/2008 season coming up.
Hey Chris, I just purchased the LED 64B Pro units from for $215 each and I was impressed. They are very bright and at 20 feet 2 units covered a large dance floor. With the master slave featur alone and and sound activation. I was able to use the units for a wedding right out of the box. I will be purchasing 6 more by the end of the year. The colors were nice and the ability to add gels for color modification. I will be using the units for my mobile systems for years. I hope the information helps. Do not get the plain jane led par 64. I saw them at one of my compatitions booth at a bridal show, not impressive. Good Luck
Originally posted by Chris Pickett:

But seriously, the Par 64,s I would want to hear about a fair real-world shoot-out between a full on LED(all channels color channelsa t 100%) vs. a non-gel'ed Par64 with a regular Par64 bulb, and compare them side by side. That is what I can't seem to get.

A guy on Pro sound web recently did a really really good shootout:

I own 4 of the Weidamark cans and I am really really happy so far. I use 2 on each side for front light for small stages.

My overall LED goal is to have 4 bars of 4 led cans and some type of DMX split system. The cans are pre rigged with DMX/power etc. I want to be able to walk into the venue with a little 2 space rack which has a dmx splitter and a rack power strip - run loomed dmx/black extension cords to the trees and then setup is done. Start programming.

I want to buy 4 more of the shorties and 8 of the retrofit kits for back light.

I really really wish the technology was at the point to where we are putting something to the extent of a 10 white watt led in a DYS type kit - us traditional gels and some type of special low voltage dimming system. That would be a hoot! Imagine showing up to a gig with a 48 channel low voltage dimmer rack then hooking up some unique break out to 20 gauge multi cable to your lights.
That was helpful. But it didn't exactly win me over on the LED technology. Can't say I'm exactly pleased with the results the "reviewer" came up with, but at least the review seemed rather fair: that's what it is, take it as it lays. So, from that aspect is is good.

I'm use to Par64's being more focuses and tighter. For example, at a show where I was being baked alive on stage while they focused the cans, the beam at 20 feet away was less than 4 feet wide.

I'm kind of thinking different. I don't really want a wash-type fixture. I am looking more for a focused beam fixture, such as a traditional Par64 seems to be. With the bulb so far back in the tube, it tends to reduce beam scatter/width and keep the light more directed at the target you're pointing it at.


Well, I want to light the performers, which in my situations tend to be largely static, so I can aim a bank or fixured as say a drummer, guitar, bass and keyboards. I can have other lights to wash the stage for the moving vocalist, such as follow spots.

So, it sounds to me like the Par64 LED fixtures are more wash type fixtures, which still plays well for me to replace the Par38's, so that's good, and that's definately now a direction I'm going to go in. So definately a replacement for the Par38's. That's good.

So, now all I need is money. Still sounds like I should get 8 of these. Then some socapex cabling and more DMX cabling. Or I could get a pair of AKG 414's! So many decisions....
I have probably close to 40 various American DJ fixtures of all types, including 4 of the LED PAR 64, 4 LED PAR 64 PRO, and 2 LED Punch Pro. I have run the LEDs in conjunction with the standard PAR 64 cans and can say the standard lamps will give you slightly more coverage. However, there are two huge advantages in using the LED PAR 64 Pros. 1) Obviously the ability to run more fixtures without worrying about circuit load, but 2) the LED cans offer the ability to change color on the fly with a simple DMX controller. To give you a comparision, I did not use dimmer packs, I used two wireless Light Copilots on diffent frequencies so that I had 16 channels. I then had multiple relay packs (8 relay packs) spread around on several truss and trees. I used to have banks of traditional PAR Cans with different color filters and had those plugged into the relay packs and could control the current load by which fixtures I had on and the colors I needed. Worked great and is a heck of a lot of work on setup. I tried out 4 of the LED PAR 64 fixtures when they first came out and liked the concept, but the output just was not what I needed. They were great in a small party area, maybe 30 X 30 but much over that, you needed more light. I use them now specifically for lighting a performer and not a dance floor. When the newer LED Par 64 PROs came out, I purchased 4 of those and did a school talent show where they needed mostly stage lighting but some acts could use the sound activated color changing functions of the LED fixtures. So I ran both side by side and depending on the act, used the appropriate fixtures. I was very surprised at the output of the 4 LED PAR 64 PROs. I had them all synchronized for most of the time and that seemed to provide the most effect. I have since purchased 2 LED Punch PROs and have to say the jury is out on those. I did not see much difference between those and the PAR 64 PROs. What I liked the most with the LED fixtures overall is the ability to have multiple colors, strobing, color fade, and just plain sound activation all in one fixture. This means less fixtures to maintain and carry, plus I don't have to worry about an inventory of bulbs or a bulb blowing in the middle of a show!

I can also say that I am impressed with the LED technology enough that I am starting to liquidate my existing lighting inventory and converting to LED. Hope this helps.
That helps. I don't bother lighting the dance floor since I'm not a DJ, but rather a sound production company. Visit my web site, you'll see the difference. I specialize in bands and live performance stuff. So, my application is lighting the stage area mainly.

One direction I am moving in towards multi-tasker lights. That is, lights that can do more than one thing. As you state with the LED Par64 Pros, they have not just color changing and fading, but a few other tricks packed into their electronics, which, for as reasons you state, less fixtures to hang and maintain. 1 Par64 LED Pro I can see replacing 2 banks of Par38's(4/bank, geled RBG and clear/no gel) and the only thing I lose is how many fixtures to hang.

I'm satisfied with some of my "high tech effects" as they get the job done, but I want to streamline getting that stage set.

Now, if I'd just get people to pay me so I can live like a human being again, I could then think forward to spending some money on these Par64 LED Pro fixtures.
Kewl site Chris. I definitely see what you are doing with the lighting. Based on this, you may even want to look at some of the larger LED wash type panels to give the general color and use a few of the LED PAR 64 Pros for that little extra punch on an individual performer.

Its a shame you and I are not close by, I could see some possiblity for teaming. I am attaching a pic of one of my loaded trusses just as a comparision. For larger shows, I generally use three trusses, but the setup time is a killer even though I have all the trusses set up modular, fixture locations pre-labeled, quick connects, prewired for everything, and wireless where possible. Still about 4 hours setup, thus one of the main reasons I am downsizing my shows and type of fixtures.


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Btw Chris, if you want an awesome fixture and have some help lifting it, the Tempest definitely draws attention. Downside is that it is heavy! and pulls some current.

I also recently started doing video with my setup. For some strange reason, Karaoke is still big here so I now have a video camera on the performer and overlay words on a large projections screen. I can also fade over to other video feeds and then switch to picture in picture mode to display who the next performer will be so that they can go ahead and come up. Fun stuff.

All the best, Victor


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I'm in the same position. I'm trying to simplify set-up mainly since I have to retrain my crew for every show(so it seems) and it takes too much time to "manage" them. I am busy working on sound, they need to plow through lights. Less fixtures but same features and less weight.

A full set-up with FULL sound(13,200 watt mains, big console, 10 channels of monitors and up to 76 channels of audio)and 4 camera shoot(down to 3 now, a NEW stand was destroyed at the last event, can't afford to replace it) takes up to 6 hours. ANd that includes lights

And like you, karaoke is still big here. I am working on video from my last 5 events that I have video for. One event someone else has video which I need for my records. I keep my karaoke switching sepparate from my multi-camera switching. Just cue and stage is all I need at FOH. I use request sheets and have a crew person gather sign-up sheets and handle the order and get that to the MC, who calls the next one up.

My FOH is starting to get crowded. Deck operator, lighting operator, video operator and me running FOH. Well, ideally this is how it should be. I just want to focus on sound. But for karaoke, I can get by with a much smaller mixer.

I'm having custom soxapex cabling installed for power purposes and will tie it to trussing. I'm doing what I can to speed set-up and tear down, but it's lots of work, as anyone experienced knows.

You're cruising the site, so you know what I'm doing and how it looks.

The LED Pro fixtures are a bit more than I was expexting to spend, but I think the output is worth it. I'll just shop around for the dealer wiht the best price, and I have plenty of friends who can help me out. The friends are pro audio dealers!

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