Controller Upgrade?

quote:

Originally posted by djmm:
Customer support will not answer calls regarding the VMS4.

if you encounter problems with the ADJ support, i'm happy to escalate. just send your initial mail to freshfluke AT freshfluke DOT de.

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And, most likely this thread will be deleted within 24 hours and I will be banned from the site.

what makes you think that?

DJ Freshfluke...

My concern is now being ignored by the President of American DJ and also the General Manager. Do you have more pull than they would?

If you call support to discuss your issue with the VMS4, they ask you to submit a ticket. There are tickets out there that are several weeks old with NO response.

Again, it is my and many others' opinions that American Audio should offer a trade in credit towards the new, properly functioning unit.

Did anyone test the original VMS4? If so, why were the problems not discovered during testing?

I am trusting you that this thread will not be closed and I will not be banned.

djmm, you will not be banned. We are still looking into this for you and should have an answer for you sometime soon. We are not ignoring you. Please do not take it as that simply because you don't have a response yet. We are discussing with all departments involved in this process. Please understand this takes time in the business world. We will take care of you the best we can. We appreciate your patience with us.
Sincerely,

Hello DJMM. We are not offering upgrades on the VMS4 to the VMS4.1 If your unit has an issue with paint please call us at 800-322-6337 to have the item picked up and we will replace the Face Plate for you at no charge. But i have to reiterate we are not offering upgrades to the 4.1. The Mic adapters are the fix for the Mic issues

quote:

Originally posted by Service Boss:
Hello DJMM. We are not offering upgrades on the VMS4 to the VMS4.1 If your unit has an issue with paint please call us at 800-322-6337 to have the item picked up and we will replace the Face Plate for you at no charge. But i have to reiterate we are not offering upgrades to the 4.1.

Why is this?

I've purchased the VMS4, the thing is serviceable (unlike other companies products), while I've not completely dissembled the unit I would assume the 'upgrades' in the 4.1 are close, if not, drop in replacements.

If your not going to give us credit for our old units, at least let us purchase the parts.

To give you an idea, when I purchased my unit one of the jog wheels did not work correctly, 4 screws and I was able to simply clean the (hall-effect?) sensor and been problem free since.

Sure the lines on my crossfader are completely gone on the bottom, but anyone could take the knob off and use some sandpaper and take a tad off of the slider and call it day...

The two units are incompatible in regards to parts and the design of the boards are completly diffrent.

Ernie, when you promoted the product to me, you did not tell me that I will need adapters to make the mic work properly or get a more powerful power supply to make the unit work properly or the unit's paint would come off with a slight rub.

The fact is, the product was misrepresented to me and everyone else. I did not buy what was sold to me. I ended up with a unit that must have adapters to work and a new power supply that may eventually damage the unit.

A few adapters and a new power supply are not fixes. They are band aids.

I purchased a unit that should work! I purchased a unit that should not need adapters and new power supplies and new faceplates!

I have letters into the President and to the General Manager. Ernie, have you seen these letters? Is your response the "official" response from American DJ to my letters?

I assure you that others are joining my fight to get upgrade credits or new units.

Also, Ernie, could you tell me HOW these units passed quality control with such SERIOUS flaws? Is that your department?

I have owned 210 American DJ products over the past 20 years and I assure you this will be the last if something is not done. I will speak my problems to everyone who will listen and from the highest mountain. I am giving you the chance to make it right for ALL of us who are dis-satisfied.

And, where did the link go to the Headphone Volume Problem?

Is that link the official fix for that problem?

Also, who should I be listening too? Ernie or James. James says that this is being discussed and Ernie says that the issue is dead and to deal with what I got....

Finally, why aren't the original faulty units being pulled from the market?

quote:

Originally posted by Service Boss:
The two units are incompatible in regards to parts and the design of the boards are completly diffrent.

Well I am interested in knowing where differences are, seeing that these units are composed of multiple boards (headphones, gains, effects all are separate), I am willing to bet you could replace defective boards (or in my case I would LOVE to have one of the updated sound cards). My unit has no warranty and seeing that I manufacture similar products to this, no reason that I couldn't update my own unit.

Any pictures of the actual "DSP core?" I am willing to bet it drops in...

nearly 70 views in a few hours... this will be the hottest subject on the boards... I promise!

Im getting so mad at american audio!!! I sent my VMS4 to get fixed last month. I had 3 broken faders, the same paint problems as you all, one of my touchpads had come with air in it FROM FACTORY, meaning, it NEVER worked fine, my mic input 2 was not working correctly FROM FACTORY, and my headphone sound was too low!! so now I sent it to get fixed.. Do you know what they sent me? another controller, not mine.. I can tell because the rubbers on the side have scratches I didnt make for instance!

Now, they painted the plate, KINDA, because some of the volume numbers are there and others not, and some fader lines aren't there too..Oh and the silver parts on top and below have freaking scratches!!!! Wasnt the plate supposed to be replaced?? My headphone volume is still low, my faders are ok, and my touchpad is ok! But now, my left tempo fader is not working correctly and I cant have pre listen on my headphones!!! Hummm I guess this is why we should all buy pioneer instead!!!

quote:

Originally posted by djmm:
There are tickets out there that are several weeks old with NO response.

see my answer above: if for whatever reason you dont get an answer from support within a 2-3 working days timeframe, everybody can send me his/her original mail to support and i will escalate this.

quote:

Again, it is my and many others' opinions that American Audio should offer a trade in credit towards the new, properly functioning unit.

i have to admit, i dont share this opinion.
my unit has been working 2 years pretty flawless. the benefit i had from my vms4 (being able to use it as analog mixer for traktor scratch AND having all midi functions in the very center) was definitely higher than minor flaws. i have been able to use the vms4 in several locations, from home to big time clubs.

i cant wait for the vms4.1 since i know it does have many improvements, but i would also happily sell my 2 years old gear to get the "upgrade" for only a small amount more.

quote:

why were the problems not discovered during testing?

might be shocking for you, but we dont live in a perfect world.

quote:

I am trusting you that this thread will not be closed and I will not be banned.

i'm all open for criticism. also ADJ listened to its vms users and improved exactly the things that have been criticized. i think that's good manners.

DJ Freshfluke,

A few replies and questions for you...

First of all, is support fielding phone calls regarding the VMS4? When I call, I am told to fill out a support ticket. When I do, it is NEVER answered.

Also, when you purchased the unit, did you purchase a hard case with it? I did. I can not close the back lid of the case because the adapters stick out too far. When you purchased your VMS4, did the fader lines fade within a few weeks? Mine did and so have hundreds of others. Keep in mind, I am a wedding jock that is very gentle on my gear. Are you using the more powerful power supply to boost your headphone output volume? Did you know that this is an UNOFFICIAL fix and may damage your unit?

My unit is only a few months old and mine has issues. No units available for replacement until October is what I was told. Can you be without your unit for a month?

No, it's a not a perfect world but you have MAJOR flaws. And you are going to tell me that these were NOT discovered during testing? BULL! I have tested for several major DJ software companies and obvious bugs are always FIXED before release. Did any of the testers even plug in a microphone? This is a SHOW STOPPER!!!

And, still no answers to my letters to the heads of American DJ. These problems will not go away.

The biggest problem is that the unit I paid over $700 for (with the case) only a few months ago is now worth $300 on ebay! Do you have $400 to throw out the window? I do not. Not one person at American DJ has yet to say, I am sorry you are having problems and you have wasted $400. Would I buy a VMS4.1? YOU BET but I can't afford to sell mine and buy a new one. I can't be out that much money from a proven FLAWED product.

Your last statement is what really burns me up about how they listened and improved the product. I AM NOT A BETA TESTER! I AM NOT TESTING A PRODUCT THAT HAS YET TO BE RELEASED. I AM AN END CONSUMER WHO PURCHASED THE PRODUCT WITH CERTAIN EXPRESSED EXPECTATIONS. These expectations were NOT MET by American DJ. Sure, they improved the product without changing the overall appearance or what it does. The VMS4.1 is a FIX for the VMS4. I want the fix for my fault unit!

Again, I will pay the price difference, I will pay for shipping, I will pay restocking fee, I will pay handling fees... JUST GET ME A UNIT THAT WORKS AS PROMISED! No adapters, no fading paint, no "unofficial" power supply enhancements...

What bothers me about them not offering these units for credit is I'd guess they did not change all the internals in the unit.

If one of the engineers that designed the unit came on here with some pictures and part numbers I might think differently. But a 'support' person that has no valuable technical knowledge of the unit besides what they are told isn't going to cut it.

I will be honest if/when I purchase the 4.1 and I find out that they are interchangeable it could be turn into something really ugly. There is a reason this is a 4.1 and not a completely 'new' unit.

Anyways, everyone's complaints here I don't think you should bother with sending the units in, way to time consuming.

Sand your slider on the bottom so it doesn't rub. Clean your faders if they don't respond. This should be simple maintenance.

*BTW* I think the guys sticking around here helping people is something really great* keep it up ;-)

Serviceboss... when you can, please reply to my post.

djimm, how did you pay for the unit?

if credit card why not try a claim back?

I'm happy with the performance of the vms4 in almost all respects. as the table paint to become blurred, and the crossfader does strange things when I move to the right. Although it would also be nice to be able to upgrade the table with the most recent. I think the compatibility of the parts should be at 100% so we can all make our vms4 a vms4.1

It is very clear to me that American DJ is hoping that by not responding, we all go away.

It is also clear that they ONLY want to be responsible for the microphone adapters.

Serviceboss posted the link to the unofficial fix to the headphone problem but that was quickly taken down since the fix will ultimately damage your VMS4. Good thing that I have now printed out the original reply which has the link.

I am hoping to get some consumer protection agencies involved in this on Monday to see how they can help. Again, over 200 products purchased from ADJ and this is how they reward a loyal customer.

The way I see it, if I sell my VMS4 and buy a new one, I will be out $350. Not willing to do that! I am STILL waiting to hear back from the President and GM of American DJ. People just never respond from this company.

quote:

Originally posted by djmm:
It is very clear to me that American DJ is hoping that by not responding, we all go away.

It is also clear that they ONLY want to be responsible for the microphone adapters.

Serviceboss posted the link to the unofficial fix to the headphone problem but that was quickly taken down since the fix will ultimately damage your VMS4. Good thing that I have now printed out the original reply which has the link.

I am hoping to get some consumer protection agencies involved in this on Monday to see how they can help. Again, over 200 products purchased from ADJ and this is how they reward a loyal customer.

The way I see it, if I sell my VMS4 and buy a new one, I will be out $350. Not willing to do that! I am STILL waiting to hear back from the President and GM of American DJ. People just never respond from this company.

I am actually surprised this hasn't turned into a class-action law suit. I'm not sure about you guys but I rely on my VMS4 as part of my monthly income, while I do have backups in place, it still isn't very reassuring to have to take a complete backup system with me for small gigs.

But I guess I am lucky (knock on wood) that I haven't had any major problems yet. I had VDJ crash once with the VMS4 (never had it crash before), crossfader paint was gone after the first day, jog wheel didn't work when I got it but I corrected that, CH1 fader feels much different than the others but hasn't caused any problems, sound output is decent, my old soundcard sounded much better, and I think my headphones are pretty loud (38OHM Sonys)

6 days and no more replies from American DJ!

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. If you call in to support, they tell you that they can't talk to you and to fill out a ticket.

Why is American DJ not replying? Anyone care to guess?

THEY KNOW THEY ARE WRONG!

Patiently waiting on your reply American DJ!

THANK YOU Ernie... email sent!

quote:

Originally posted by djmm:
THANK YOU Ernie... email sent!

Update?

Not much to update besides we discussed some service issues and how to improve them.

I do have a better understanding now of the situation and they really have done all they can do.

Welcome to the club!
I am also having problems with my VMS4 as headphones volume down and the damn screen printing dropping in volume controls, and patches that are appearing in two silver bands. I've made ​​a decision: the first and last time I buy anything from Amercian Audio! Never again! And even more: I put on my blog, Facebook, Orkut and Twiter my indignation at the service of ADJ! Here in Brazil there is a representative of the seller and the warranty is only 3 months! Absurd!
Now the American Audio decides to release a "new" product called VMS4.1? What a farce! After selling VMS4 with serious resolve to release a "fix the bugs" the VMS4 to try to pull back the public ... A real lack of concern for their customers who bought the VMS4 thinking we were buying a good quality equipment which would last at least a 3 year ... Pure mistake! Then offer to fix the microphone adapters for power supply and still strong ... I do not speak any more!
I am very angry! In addition to being charged by the representative in Brazil have damaged my equipment replenish chemicals on the panel, I see no solution to date for my case! No one returns, just tell me to wait, wait and wait ...
My next equipment will be Denon or Pioneer!

I agree with everything here about all the flaws of the vms4 and how insanely bad the support team are, its a mickey mouse company and i would never ever buy from them again!! My vms4 could never be sold on as, (never mind getting these fix adapters..) the headphone output NEVER worked, the 2 mic inputs NEVER worked, it NEVER worked in analog mode, ALL the inputs and outputs on the device are faulty as it will only ever play on the left or right speaker never on both and i've tried EVERYTHING, a lot of LEDS went after 2 weeks use, basically all the paint from around the crossfader is gone and all the crossfader markings gone 2!!! I've never seen a product which is so badly made! how could you even think about selling this to the public in this state? And its not just me everyone seems to have problems!!! this is a forum about the controller and all it is is problem after problem!!!! I tried to send my controller back at the start but the price of sending it back to England where i bought it was very high, and the crazy support team were no help and told me to send my controller to Germany which would have had a higher postage cost!! At this stage all is left to do is burn the stupid thing!!!!!

Moderators, please close this thread. I have talked with support and they explained the problem. I see no need in keeping this thread around any longer... thanks!

Thread closed.

quote:

Originally posted by djmm:
First of all, is support fielding phone calls regarding the VMS4? When I call, I am told to fill out a support ticket. When I do, it is NEVER answered.

i understand that i'm somewhat special if i write to them or call them, but the infos i got were always on point.

however, if you didnt receive an answer for whatever reason, i am here to escalate this. as said before numerous times: write to FRESHFLUKE at FRESHFLUKE dot DE and attach the mail you sent to support.

quote:

Also, when you purchased the unit, did you purchase a hard case with it? I did. I can not close the back lid of the case because the adapters stick out too far.

the adapters were given for free, which wouldnt have done every country. i can on my end cope with plugging them out after DJing. i have to plug out other stuff as well.

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When you purchased your VMS4, did the fader lines fade within a few weeks?

no they didnt on neither of the 3 units i was using (2 of them being beta units) before the vms was released.

a small charge has been affected by that issue and you can contact support about this.

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Are you using the more powerful power supply to boost your headphone output volume?

why should i? never needed that and i've been playing in clubs or other loud environments (trade shows).

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Can you be without your unit for a month?

i cant but i have always a plan b / alternative to go for a few gigs.

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No, it's a not a perfect world but you have MAJOR flaws.

flaws - i agree. major flaws - i dont agree.

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I have tested for several major DJ software companies and obvious bugs are always FIXED before release.

if you would have ever done so you would know that not everything can be fixed before release for several reasons (release time window, money, other reasons, ...)

i have seen several companies by now and everywhere there have to be made compromises.

quote:

The biggest problem is that the unit I paid over $700 for (with the case) only a few months ago is now worth $300 on ebay!

uhm. sorry, but that calculation is wrong.
please put the items separately. the vms alone is about 250-300 euro on ebay.

so selling for that price and getting an updated device for somewhat around 150-200 euro on top equals 15 euro per month. i can live with that. was nothing different when my fiancee traded his old phone in to buy a new phone.

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I want the fix for my fault unit!

if you have a FAULTY unit, ADJ support takes care of it. if you're just complaining about the vms, put the vms in contest with similar devices that cost two times more - and then be happy with a solid unit that gave me a lot of DJing fun during the last 2 years and only minor things that could be worked around.

quote:

Originally posted by DICEPD:
But I guess I am lucky (knock on wood) that I haven't had any major problems yet.

nope, i'd say your part of the majority although this forum sometimes doestn reflect that, but this is how forums are

quote:

Originally posted by djmm:
Why is American DJ not replying? Anyone care to guess?

maybe because everybody and his momma is at BPM show birmingham??! jeez.

quote:

Originally posted by alanb123:
...

hijacking another thread? again?

quote:

Originally posted by Jingles:
Thread closed.

thx.