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5 replies

Controller and SW issues

G Guest
OK, getting into intels and movers, in case nobody cares or has been following. Trust me, I don't care as much as I should, I'm just a sound guy who has to also do lights.

You can check out my inventory at:
http://www.studio42.com/gear.html#lighting

More is on the way, and that list might be slightly out of date at the moment.

Need to discuss.

I have the DMX Operator, now called the DMX Operatator 192. I can't say I like this or dislike this. It is my first controller and it has been extremely under-utilized at the moment, which is fine, as I am growing into it quite nicely. I typicaly like to think ahead to avoid screwing myself over. Going forward, I want to do more syncronized shows or at least more complex scenes or sequences with movement, and the limitations of the DMX Operator 192 now fall into play. It's not like the entire event will have constant movement, but I may choose to run a complex series of scenes with movement on the moving yoke fixtures(and gobo changes and movement) and color changes, as well as maybe bringing on and off dance lights. For me, I just want to select the sequence and then just walk away, but then hit a key if possible when the song is done and it turns off the movers and dancers, then color chances to nice white.

Now I'm looking into computer software. Why? I don't have the time to learn all the kewl ins and outs of the higher end DMX consoles that I've seen on some of the major tours I've done events for. Also, the cost is just not justifiable for my type of work. I'm not saying I can't afford it, I'm just saying it does not make sense for me to spend that kind of money.

I'm looking at ADJ afor their CompuWare product vs C-----t's ShowExpress with X-Factor interface.

Features I am looking for:
It would be nice to get a preview of what I think I'm going to get in the end. Not required, but would be nice.

Ability to create my own scenes and sequences and trigger them at will, even if from a menu system. Be nice if that had a picture of what it SHOULD be, but hey, that's probably asking too much.

TWO requiremets are: DMX INPUT and not rack-mount. Storage of scenes or a show in the unit is nothing I care about. USB is fine. I want to plug in my DMX Operator 192 to over-ride if need be, and to use it to help program scenes.

So, I'm listening. No decision has been made, timeline is self-imposed, but I want to blow people away for a big event for Chinese New Year(OK, Vietnamese in my case, but I'm not even Asian). I'm going full out for this event. Every light I have, full PA and monitors(floor monitors plus EIM's), all the more pricey microphones and wireless on display, and I'm putting together my video system and doing a 3-5 camera shoot, along with my photographer and catering teams participating as well.

I always give 100%. I choose the gear needed for the event and always give world class professional service. This is an outdoors event and very high profile for my community, so I need to show off for media and the community. Don't get me started on the retarded politics. Even so, I am not guaranteed this job(although nobody else can do it), and even if I dont get this show, I'm getting the gear anyways.

Near future purchases will be moving mirror fixtures, 2 follow spots, and a DMX Hazer that uses water-based fluid(ADJ, are you listening?). I'm so not into fog anymore. I have 3 fog machines, 2 of which have never been removed from their boxes. The one that has been opened was used for 1 event, and my brother-in-law borrowed it for a party a few months ago. Hey it still works and it got used, so I'm pleased. I'd rather use haze to make the lights pop, but fog to flood the stage for a true fog effect.

OK, enough of this. I need to travel in meat-space and do this same work as well. I'll read responses when I see them! Thanks for all opinions, which will be listened to and taken into consideration.
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FM Former Member
The Operator 192 is capable of running chases, which I believe is what you are calling a "complex series of scenes with movement". That particular controller can store 12 chases total. Each chase can have up to 240 steps or scenes in it, so you can make them rather complex if you wish. A chase is a one-button playback, which will allow you to hit the button and walk away. You can also program a scene with all white lighting for after a song - which can be just a plain scene that you call up with another button. There is also a blackout button, which will turn all the scenes and chases off.

If you have DMX dimmer/relay packs, you can add the par cans and dance lights into the mix with scenes and chases as well. Each dimmer/relay will count as a 'fixture' the same way a moving head or color changer would. The only thing you need to be careful of is how many fixtures you have in total. The Operator 192 is capable of supporting up to 12 fixtures (with up to 16 control channels each). If you have more than 12 fixtures, then you will either need to duplicate DMX addresses to 'double-up' on fixtures or consider other control options.

DMX software is cool. I haven't spent much time with it, but I've heard nice things about it.

Best,
-Tech
FM Former Member
Chris,
I agree with Tech, your operator 192 can do PLENTY and more. You can hit a button to go back and forth between chases or scenes or anything and even set it to audio activation if u wish. It’s all possible. With your set up (from what I’ve seen and heard) it doesn't sound like you need a computer dmx program, but if you wish it can be done.
I would stay away from the *cough* Xpress what ever it’s called. I don't own it but have used the software and it doesn't work too well at all with many problems and little things that could be better. Pay a little more and go for the elation Compu pro. It takes ALOT of getting used to, but the possibilities are ENDLESS.

Second, why the input is a must? You can buy a second special box for the software but it’s like $300 just so u can use a smaller controller. I was thinking for the joystick but the computer can do that. It can even auto trigger the scenes to the beat of music. It’s cool.

You can download it on elations site. Also, it comes with a fantastic 3d visualization.

-Homeboy
S Studio42 (Guest)
A scene is simply not complex enough for my application. For example, I intend to create an opening sequence with the two movers going what appears to be randomly around, trying to bring attention to the stage at the start of the show and blinking stage-aimed cans. There will be little to no cohesion between these events, but will be sequenced to non-existant music(which will be provided later, I will get beat and length definitions later on).

Also, during some points of the show, I wish to have the movers again moving around, but have the lights switch to different colors or different color banks in timings that won't necessarily line up with that of the movers. Also, I may wish the movers to move fast, but the color changers to change slower, or vice versa with dimmming time being a factor as well.

I really don't have time to memorize or name scenes, much less remember what the heck I programmed, even if I document it. Working 120+ hours a week between the various things I do, I try to remember as little as possible. I also never get time at an event to program my DMX Operator. My clients typically thing this is magic that takes no time to set up, so programming is flat out out of the question. If I can design my "show" off-line, that would be a major time saver and I can see what I think I'm going to do.

Input of an external DMX controller is a must. Why? Back-up in case of failure on the computer. Also, in many cases, a lot of my events will require the computer for a different task at the beginning of the event(say, archiving contents of digital camera memory cards so the cards can be re-used), but by the time the music truly starts, the computer will be back in position. I can also use the controller to do a manual over-ride. Then again, I might just want to screw with something that is running for whatever reason. In a live environment, look at the weak point and see where you can build in redundancy. Requiring controller input saves me if my computer should take a dump on me mid-show. If a DigiCo Live D5 audio console can take a poop on you mid-show and crash in the middle of a song and bring things to a halt for 5 minutes, why couldn't the same thing happen to a a lighting computer?

Now, despite the fact that my controller can be triggered via MIDI, it is only valid for scenes. Not good enough. Not bad, just not sufficient enough for my application. What if I want control over dimmer times? I just need more control.

My goal is to have a show director. I just want to do sound. Get a lighting operator, get a video director(maybe the show director) and able to switch the active camera going to BetaCam SP. We are designing things around 30 minute sets with a 1 minute break between sets to facilitate tape changes. Recording to tape is faster and more convenient(and reliable) than going direct to DVD-R or CD-R, and it takes less time to change media.

The bottom line doesn't come down to price, it comes to features, THEN price. If the Elation product(which I've already downloaded, just not installed anything yet) is more feature rich, then that's good.

I've already printed scene sheets for my DMX operator(Channel, value, description). It is hard to visualize when you're working in the living room with 6 dimmer packs and no lights connected up. Now adding DMX fixtures, well, that's just more complication.

I'm ordering my movers tomorrow. I'll order a pair of some intel scanners when they go on special or something. I'm ordering follow-spots later in the week. After AES, I make my final decision as to my wireless IEM configuration. I'm also probably going to take out of active production 3 channels of wireless to replace them with 4-10 additional channels of true diversity UHF.
FM Former Member
I can see you are really into getting a computer controller...

Most of the things you talked about can be done with your op. 192, the only thing your getting really is the visualizations, and a few more settings. Anyhow, you said a dmx in is needed for backup? Well if you close the program it’s not going to keep running even if you have a controller doing everything farther up the line. What you need is a dmx recorder so you can dump a few shows onto the recorder and run in from there with a push of a button while you use your computer for other things.

Congrads on the movers, and some scanners possible too! I would suggest looking into some LED type lights as you can have many many colors and less power draw.

Lastly, why the follow spots? If you’re getting movers, and you have the op. 192 which has a joystick....just use them as remote follow spots. You can even run the follow spot tool on the elation computer software. I'm sure another set of movers would cost less then follow spots and you can let them do other things until they are needed! Just a thought...

-Homeboy
S Studio42 (Guest)
First off, let me clarify. For a while the original DMX Operator was being called the DMX Operator 192. Now, clearly I can see what the DMX Operator 192 is. What I have is the DMX Operator. Now, at an MSRP of $329 for the DMX Operator 192, that isn't a bad upgrade price, but I'm not quite yet ready to upgrade yet. I am listening. I might have to upgrade.

That follow-spot tool in the Elation software is rather tempting...

My issue about a DMX recorder is:
Are the scenes named or are they via numbers? Sorry, it's a relational thing. With the DMX recording capability apparently included with the 192, it gives me hope, but seems to not really address a secondary issue of better naming. Looks like I'll need a cheat sheet.

The computer should give me the option to run more than one sequence at once, would it not? If not, then it's not as useful.

In regards to LED fixtures: They simply aren't giving the output I want, at least at a price I am looking for. As far as the rest of your arguments, those are precisely why I am investigating LED fixtures: Less draw, more options, less heat. But, that comes at a price. Price will come down in time. It's just expensive right now.

Answeing the follow-spot question:
My clients are requesting/demanding follow-spots. Period. Doesn't matter that I explained that I can use the movers as follow-spots. BUT, there's a darn good second reason. Most of my events are "variety" events, where there are more than one singer, often 2, rarely 3. I think it would be difficult to track two feature performers via one controller. I find it easier to just get what they want. Besides, these are mid-range DMX-capable follow-spots that should get plenty of usage. Always listen to the customers.

My main purpose for the movers was to bring a moving element largely out and into the audience area, but I do intend to have them cross the stage as well. A lot of "wow and flash". I do intend to use the movers to light up the singer if they are center stage at times.

Now, the argument for the movers are remote follow-spots is valid. I've seen tons of shows where they use their movers as remote follow-spots, which is great when the talent HAS A SHOW and will be in a certain place at a certain time. At the same time, they still use follow-spots.

I am losing gigs by not having follow-spots. I'm now more concerned about getting those gigs now.

Scanners can wait a while. I gotta go call our mutual friend and order some DMX cabling. I should have gotten off my butt and done that today.

One of my issues is that this is truly a one-man show. Outside of getting gear into position, my typical crew doesn't want to step up. So, I end up having to run it all. I can guarantee that on events where they are requesting follow-spots, I can get the operators I request.

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