Church Lighting

Since you mention concerts, I would recommend both front and back lighting so you can get some depth on the individuals. Front lighting only can produce some odd shadows.

Put a truss in front and back. Hang it from the ceiling or bolted to the beams, whichever has the lowest profile and looks the best and least obstruction of views.

I'd say anywhere from 6-8 LED ParCan's front AND back.(that's per truss, not total)

The LED mixing gives you virtually any color. All colors on produces white. So there.

How big a controller? Depends on how much control you want or need. Regardless, a DMX Operator or DMX Operator 192, which is the most basic, is more than sufficient. And by basic, I don't mean bare bones. There's a lot of cool stuff in that controller, including scene and chase programming. I'd say if the DMX Operator 192 has a USB storage/load from a flash drive, spend the few extra bucks for that.

Getting a controller such as that gives you room to grow should you want to or need to. If you don't want or need to grow, you've still got a good piece of gear that should last you a good long time.

As I've said in the past, I've had my DMX Operator since early 2002. I am only now getting into programming it.

ya man the dmx op 192 has room to grom or just stay the same if u need it to be. and i agree with what chris said front and back truss should be required. and def. minimum of 6 cans per side front and back. for a min. total of 12 and max of like 20 should do good for a good stage washing. peace. jingles.

So, lets say I go with 12 LED Par64, and a DMX 192 controller, hanging the lights from the ceiling front and back. Then all I need are cables? Do I run 12 cables back or is there something in between? I have got about a 100 foot run back to the sound board.

Thanks for the advice.

Couple more questions for you guys.

The PAR64 pro cans are quite a bit spendier than the regular ones. Why? Which would you recommend for our use? The real question is should I spend more per fixture and get less lights, or less per fixture and get more?

Also for the controller, I am looking at the
Elation Scenesetter and the Elation Operator Pro
Which is what you guys are calling the 192?

hey bro here is al link to the oprator 192 not the pro. the one i was talkin about is HERE. now the one chris is talkin bout is the same thing except a par can side. and there is like one more feature on the pro then onthe regular one.
also u need about 3 foot DMX cables between each fixture and then longer cables when going from each side of truss (front and back) and then a long long cable going from truss no controller. also i recomend more lights and less money. lol get what u can afford but also get what u need for coverage. peace. jingles

Let me just refine what Jingles said. It's correct, just want to clarify.

Now, I am a sound production company, and I typically run my DMX down my 200-foot whip. That's my snake that goes from my 56-channel stage box and my console's front end. So, chances are, you can use a spare INPUT channel on your 100-foot snake, or else(and I recommend) run a sepparate 120-ohm XLR cable for your DMX-512 signalling. I'm ordering a 200-foot cable to match my cabling, which tyically consists of the 200-foot whip, 2 200-foot Cat5's, 200-foot BNC for video and soon that 200-foot for DMX.

So, go from your controller to your FIRST LED ParCan64 using that 100-foot DMX cable you make. In fact, what you might want to do is run that to the REAR truss. Also, maybe make a cable that runs down from the rear truss to the ground, then attach that to your long run. Why? Maintenance. Then, take a much shorter cable, say anywhere from 3-10 feet long to from one ParCan64 to the next. They have DMX pass-thru connections. It's easy, go DMX IN to the INPUT and then pass it along using the DMX OUT. Simple. Repeat until you run out of lights on that back truss, then take a 20-foot cable and go from the back truss to the front truss, making sure to leave a little slack, but to also clean it up as much as possible. Repeat the daisy-chaining until you're out of lights. Then, insert a DMX terminator in the outstanding DMX OUT on the last fixture. Build your own, it's cheap and easy. You may not need it, but I recommend you do this anyways, it's highly recommend it. I personally built mine and I am going to build a few more just in case.

Now, as far as the DMX Operator is concerned, take Jingle's advice and go for the Pro. Now, I can program movers using my lowly DMX Operator, and in fact, I prefer this for one simple reason: Since I have them on different "channel bank" switches, I have them assigned to the same faders, so I can use one fader to change color or gobo or other things. Handy function. But, in my case, it's knowing how to use what you've got. But even if you just want to do the Par64's, you can save money going with the [URL=DMX Operator]http://www.elationlighting.com/product.asp?ProductIDNumber=1091&cat=Controllers%20Distributed%20By%20American%20DJ[/URL]

In regards to the Pro LED fixtures, that's what I am going to buy 8 of for now when money allows. And when money allows again, another 8. I might have to go 4 and 4(and 4 and 4). The Pro's have higher output. For yours, you can get by with the regular LED Par64's since you're in a fixed location and not worried about mobile applications.

Sorry to go on and on. I'm detailed oriented. I walked off a job this week because it was a certain special type of "cluster", if you get my drift. I hate inefficient and disorganized. They are taking 2 days to do what could be done in 6 hours with fewer guys. Time for them to learn what being professional means. I earned the same money in 2 hours going to another job site. Beats 4 days of dealing with idiots.

thanks chris for all the details.

Let me get you straight. I can use a spare input on my existing snake for audio to control lights? That is wonderful!

We have a drop ceiling, so I can then go up from the snake to the rear lights, daisy chain them, run the 20' cable above the drop ceiling to the front lights (again daisy chain and terminate) and we are done. Sounds really good!

What I don't get is if they are all daisy chained on one cable, how do you control them separately? Does that much information go through an XLR cable?

Also if I go with the DMX operator, it says up to 12 lights. If I get more lights what then? Do I have to upgrade the controller?

Right, you can use up an existing INPUT channel on your snake for DMX, but I still strongly recommend using 120-ohm DMX cabling, it will work better.

DMX-512 is a data protocol. Think something like MIDI. You assign the LED ParCan's to specific DMX channels. The fixtures listen to what they need to and ignore the rest, passing it all along. And yes, they are daisy chained on one cable.

Also, the "12 light" is not accurate. There are 12 banks of 16 channels each. I know, I am runnin FAR more than 16 fixtures on my DMX Operator. 12 banks of 16 channels each comes to 192 channels. If you want, you can simply assign ALL the ParCan's to the same DMX channels(say, all on channels 1-7) and then control them all at once. Hit the Bank 1 button, use the faders.

As far as your general cabling as you described from my explanation, yes, that will work just fine.

As far as technical specs, it appears DMX-512 runs at 230kbits per second, which is 4 times faster than a 56K modem. Of course, it is uni-direction, asyncronous and carries no error correction, compression or noise suppression.

This is how I use my DMX Operator:
My "dancing" lights are on channels 1-16, and I have currently 9 of them with a 10th coming soon. I also have my 4 PinSpots and Mirror Ball Motor on that bank as well, all using dimmer and switching packs(brains for stuff that isn't DMX)

I have my ParCan's(32 Par38's) on Dimmer Packs on channels 17-32(the next fixture button) in two banks of 8, 2 lights per channel, front and back banks.

I have my color changers(4)) across another 2 fixtures, mainly so I can overlap and control them faster. Each uses 4 channels.

I have my movers on 2 differnt buttons(2 movers), mainly for ease of programming.
My spots are on yet another button, but are using only 2 channels each so are next to each other as far as channels are concerned.

Did I leave something out?

Oh, my color fusions: 2 channels each. Mainly for control in case I want one on and one off.

It's complex, yet simple. Just doesn't make sense if you don't see my notes. I document everything.

You can either control your ParCan's individually(I'd say up to 24 total at least, based on channels and easy programming), or in groups(multiples assigned to the same channels) or all at once(all assigned the same channels). Loads of options. Trust me, with a little creativity, you can get a TON of lights on that controller.

Great. You have both given me quite an education. I think I have my basic system worked out and if I get into trouble I know where to find some really helpful people!

God Bless You,
Jonathan
gracejapan.com

Once you see the fixures and the ports, you'll see how easy it is.

I had to learn this with no help in early 2002. Of course, I'm an audio engineer and technician, as well as a data communications guy, so adding a new data protocol wasn't a big deal for me.

Now I have to re-incorporate multi-track recording into my live rig, wireless in-ear monitors, video and photography. Quite a task!

Chris, I would like to award you with the

"most crap controlled by a DMX operator award"

Congratulations!

I've put together some mean looking rigs together with my operator but never that much stuff. If I saw you in person I would shake your hand!