Band lighting

Nuke pinspots. Not because I don't like them, but because they aren't a wash light. They tend to shoot a very small beam. You want wash.

A hazer isn't the same as a fogger, so just be aware of the differences. I love my Antari HZ-300. Affordable and works fantastic, but if you're outdoors, it's like a fart in a windstorm, but so would just about any hazer or fogger anyways.

You can use MyDMX with a foot controller. You may also be able to use a food controller wiht some controller surfaces that support MIDI input, but read your spec sheeds to ensure the two devices will work together.

I can't say anything bad about the Mega Pixel, except it looks and works better as something the audience can also see(check out how it's arranged, you'll see why). You might want to go with some Mega Bars or Mega Panels or even Profile Panels. The ADJ LED cans are also great otions as well. 2 trees would be better though, coverage from both sides.

Kick drum mic:
If you take care of your drum(tuned, maintained, good heads), the AKG D-112 is a fantastic mic, but it's also rather unforgiving so I can't use it very often since most of the bands I work with these days aren't exactly taking good care of their stuff. For those lazy folks, but still a fantastic mic, the Audix D-6 is a winner, which is very forgiving as far as placement and on poorly maintained drums. The Shure Beta 91 is a good one too. The Shure Beta 52A is a rather stock kick drum mic these days, but if you take the grill off, you can see it's a Beta 58 capsule more or less in there, not a large diaphragm. The EV RE-20 and Sennheiser 421 are also good choices as well. The Beta 91 is a boundary mic, and the Shure Beta 52a is not a large diaphragm, while the rest are. Also, the Beta 91 also requires phantom power for running it's circuitry, so your console needs to support it or you need an external phantom power unit. The Audio Technical AE5200 is a dual element micrphone in a single unit, but the break-out cable is prone to failure due to the cable's design(you can make a better one) and since one of the two elements is a condenser element, you again need to have a console or mixer that supports phantom power. If you go with the AE5200, don't stuff it down the hole, just maybe an inch to .5 inch inside will be sufficient or you start choking the patterns and the sound goes all to crap on you fast.

I like my power combo of the Beta 91 inside, D-6 just inside the hole, and the Yamaha Subkick outside. I can tyically get anything I want with that combination.

With the Mega Pixel Bar you will get a lot of light for the money. Whether one or two is enough light will depend on the setting with which they are used.

Drawbacks are these:
They are very directional and less than 4' long - so don't expect them to fan out much wider than a 4' beam. With only a 23 degree spot angle they don't fan much vertially either. For example, if your band is 20' across the stage, it will be tough to get good coverage both across and front to back with two Pixel Bars. This is one reason you so often see par cans as the main front lights.
With bars you will not have the option of highlighing individual singers or soloists.

I'm not saying not to get them. You'll have trade-offs no matter what you buy. I'm just trying to point out some things to consider.

What you do on the back line is a just a matter of what you want it to look like. I use Mega Bars to uplight the wall behind the band and use a Kam Parbar on a pole behind facing forward to add punch.

In a live situation in which one of the musicians has to control the lights, I've concluded that a hardward controller is the way to go [but I haven't tried MyDMX type approaches]. With a software/dongle approach you will have to have a computer or some other hardware to trigger the dongle on stage.

Based on what you said, it sounds like you want to be able to trigger "Scenes." I'm not aware of a $200 controller that will record and play back scenes. I'm fairly happy with the Magic 260.

Good luck.

Haha. As you can tell chris was trained in audio first. And lighting by me a few years ago.
Right chris?

Hi John and welcome to the forums.

What effect are you trying to go for ultimately? A hazer with pin spots to highlight guys can be a really cool effect. For example:


Now its not really all that dark in there, but you can see the cool effect the uplights (which are DLED 36 MH's without the frost filter, cutting angle to about 10-15 degrees) and haze makes. The gobos are also really powerful down the middle and I would highly recommend haze if you want to go to moving lights in the future. Haze really brings them to life.

As for 2 trees or one, that is a more a design decision. As you can see in this photo, the cans in the middle are spread out like a fan for a cool effect.

I will say this however, two tress will give you more versatility then one. If you get two however, you can always leave one out and do a center tree in the back instead of two. This will allow you to change it up more often.

As for control options, that is a matter of preference as well. I would, however, recommend something more along the lines of MyDMX is it is much more versatile and expandable as your lighting show grows. For example, the Operator Pro 192 has only 192 channels vs the 512 that MyDMX can handle. MyDMX also has unlimited scenes vs the finite amount you would get on the Operator Pro.

My advise would be first, figure out your goals and what you want to accomplish with lighting. Any effects or anything like that etc? Also figure out on how you may want to grow the show in the future. Then we can better advise you on how to act. I would agree, however, you will at least want a basic front wash and will need a controller. Everything else is added goodies from there, be it movers, back light, pin spots, side light, down light, etc etc.

Feel free to ask and we can all try and help. One of my jobs as a lighting designer is to translate words and thoughts into light. So this is something I am rather good at . Once again, welcome to the forums.

Thanks for all the great input, I really appreciate it all! Thanks for clarifying the Mega Bars, I really am looking for something to place in front of the band to wash them and then have "eye candy" behind us.

So is a scanner something I should even consider or stick with something more simple and use par cans? I feel that the scanner has more control then a derby (forgive me if I am butchering terminology here) and is much cheaper than lights with a moving head. We really want some moving lights during some songs. But for some slower songs, just change the colors up and add some warmth, no movement.

As for the front, usually we stay nice and tight and only go about 12'-15' across. What size par cans or other lights should we use for lighting from the front (on the ground facing up at an angle).

We are trying to stay within the $2,000 to $2,500 range since I will be footing the bill and be reimbursed over time, so that is my start up limit really. Anything more and I will have to consult my boss (I also call her my wife from time to time).

Should clarify here......moving lights in addition to par cans behind us as well. I like the idea of par cans behind us like the photos above (whether it is one tree for now and two later is fine) but want something with motion added to it also, hence the scanner.

Just remembered one other thing...storage and transport? I know you can get generic storage cases with cube foam and such, or would a $20 locker trunk with some foam it suffice? I will be using a pick truck with a covered bed to move it around. Dont think duffel bags would be good for anything but stands and cables.

This is how I move my gear:

I have these Arriba cases that claim to hold 4 Par64's on a t-bar. They don't do that very well. Still, I can stick 4 64 LED Pros on the T-Bar into the bag face down, with the bar on top, then flop the pad over the T-bar and secure with the handle straps. Ain't perfect, works OK. I keep the cluster pre-wired to save time.

As far as my Mega Panels go, those are all on a 5-foot i-bar truss. They fold flat when I move them. They look like this when I set them up(sort of a crescent shape/outward):



The rig stays pre-wired with power and DMX to save time.

As far as wash goes, well, I like my 64 LED Pros, but I like the fact that the panel lights tend to spread out a BIT wider in a shorter throw environment. I find if I could actually get some decent lift onto the 64 LED Pros, they'd work better, but the reality is I can't. The Mega Bars I bought with the intentions of using it as a ground-mounted fixture. Screwing around with it on Halloween for this display showed me it has some other potential:



While NOT an ideal mounting situation, if I had more time and proper hardware, I could hvae done a better job, but my budget of less than $5 was spent on the bag of ice that went into the ground fogger. Note at the base, you can see another Mega Bar 50 in red, the one to the left is hidden by the ground fog. under the bars to the left are two more Mega Bar 50's aimed DOWN and the ground mounted Mega Bar 50's are all doing slow strobes. The Mega Bar 50's on the tree are doing macro function. The purple light is an 64 LED UV. All gear is ADJ with the exception of the ground fogger, which is an Antari ICE-101, and the Bob LED Flame bowl by Chauvet(which is run off an ADJ PP-DMX20L power pack). I ran the whole rig with MyDMX. The stand/tree is an ADJ LTS-2 stand.
(I still have 1 more new in the box, and I have plenty of other stands as well including cranks, trussing and more)

The Mega Bar 50's are mounted to the T-bar using the included bolts and nuts, but not the wing nuts. If I had more time and the proper nuts, I would have used ADJ 1.5" o-Clamps and mounted 1 Mega Bar 50 on each side of the tree. Not sure what I would have done with the other two!

(there was a 4x6 board behind the front patio to force the ground fog to move forward towards the front door, it worked really well!)

Scanners are nice, but for my work, they don't work good for me. That's not to say don't get them. Scanners can be great. Adding movement will really bring a lot of wow factor to your light show, and using MyDMX will help you quickly and easily design some powefully cool FX sequences.

Well, for your front light you will want to go with something with a larger beam angle to wash better. All fixtures have a beam angle and most of them have it posted with the fixture.

For cans behind you, you can either do a small beam angle or a large one. The small would give you the effect like above. Tight beams cutting through the haze and highlighting small parts of the stage. A larger one would create an even wash of the stage, making it one color vs the blotchy look that a smaller one would create.

I would, however, recommend all LED lighting for that stuff. You will be thankful on stage because it wouldn't be nearly as hot for one. The power consumption is also a lot less and you wouldn't have to worry about tripping breakers. Mega Pannels and Bars would be good for a wash light. Cans like P56's and 38 LED Pro's would be a tighter angle for the pinspot effect.

As for scanners, there are tons to choose from. They are also cheaper then moving head equivalents. The moving heads, however, will give you greater range of motion and let you put them on the ground, like on the side fills in the pictures above in my last post. Just something to think about.

For what I do, scanners are useless. It's mainly because of where and how I have to mount things to get things done due to having to do things like manage sight lines and things of that nature.

For the most part, let's say you went with T-Bars, you can put your cans/wash facing you, and mount a scanner pointing the opposite direction(into the crowd) if that is where you want to aim your scanners. Keep it near the middle though for weight balancing issues, unless you can mount it to the downtube.

You might want to consider 4 stands, 2 of which go with an i-beam trussing system that the drummer sits under. You can mount wash lights on there and your scanners, and have the scanners shoot THROUGH the stage and into the crowd if you want to, which would look REALLY COOL through haze.

Me personally, I prefer moving head lights. I'm not going to say better or worse, I'm just saying that's what I like. I can mount them on top of a speaker, I can put them on the ground, or if I wanted to use the included brackets I could mount them on stands or trussing. They also tend to weigh more.

As far as what SerraAva says about going all LED, I totally concur for all the reasons he mentioned. Less heat, less power draw, less weight too(often!).

I just don't like seeing all backwash lighting. It ends up being too shadowy and you can't see crap from an audience perspective. I prefer if there is some front wash as well. The Mega Panels work good for me because I get low profile lights with a good throw that is reinforced by my 64 LED Pros from the front.

The main show I do is a more "theatrical" shadowcast performance(sets, props, SFX, the works, we even fly 3 characters). Back wash options are simply not available due to the logistics of the facility(hard to work work, no rigging points, don't have the right trussing anyways, facility difficult to work with, cast and crew not able to handle all the stuff that needs to be done yet but are improving). So, I have to go low-angle front wash. It's not perfect, but it gets the job done.

When I do bands and other events, I use the Mega Panels as a sort of back wash. The Mega Bar 50's and 64 LED Pros are used for front wash. That's usually all I have time to configure.

Chris and Serra, thank you for all the great input.

I think I will start with 2 mega panels to wash the band from the front (which in the end is the most important thing I think, gotta see the performers after all) and then get a stand with a t-bar and put 4 par cans (36 I think) and mount a scanner to the center bar (the vertical pole). I want those back lights to really be beams and accent and add to the show, not necessarily light us up.

Between that and getting a hazer and myDMX and all the cables and such, it will put me a little over budget, but I will make it work. If that works well, maybe I will talk the guys into ponying up a little extra to maybe double the number of lights, but for our next gig, which is in a small venue at the end of January, it might be sufficient.



Now in my day job, I am also a musician, and if I can convince the powers that be to invest in lights rather then contract out, I most definately want moving lights. For our Christmas concert, the company used 4', 6' and 10' square trusses standing vertical on flat bases with moving lights on top and par cans lighting the trusses up.

Great effect, problem is when we go on TDY, we never get lights, or at the mercy of the venue we perform at. We have tons of sound gear and people run sound, why not add lights to the mix I say.

I have the Antari HZ-300. It can be controlled via DMX, which for most people really isn't a factor, but for me it is, as I do need to turn it on and off for the show. It also has a full featured remote and is not only affordable, but also reliable. I use a Korg NanoKONTROL to control it via MyDMX. Fantastic.

As far as gearing up, don't get cheap on cables. Use ADJ's AccuCable. Really, costs for cabling using DMX cabling vs XLR microphone cabling is trivial, and you need to use DMX cabling anyways, so just use the right stuff in the first place. Mark it too, so you don't get confused in a hurry.

Par36's are pin spots. You might want Par38's then.

As far as movers, let me just give you some ideas to help give you options. MyDMX has this 3D Visualizer, which you can use to help design your lighting shows. Since DMX is a one-way protocol, MyDMX doesn't care if you even have the fixtures you're trying to program for, so that means you can "try out" different fixtures without having to buy anything, provided there is a profile. You can also make your own profiles or bring in profiles other people make(Jingles is usually the go-to source for profiles).

Having said that, moving head lights are getting more affordable but are expensive. You may choose to just rent for a bit for those because of costs. Just make sure you use the correct profile and do the correct programming and when it comes time to rent, all you need to do is set the mode as required and the DMX channel and you're good to go. When the time is right to buy, then go buy them!

Some people don't even own any lights and are using software to design light shows, then they contract out what they need and where and how it needs to be oriented and addressed, then they show up, plug in and away they go.

If you have to hold off on an item to stay under budget for now, forget the hazer for NOW. Get it soon though. I am not a big fan of fog, but I love my hazer. If I had the hazer years ago, it would have helped with a certain business avenue, but that's OK because I wasn't enjoying it.

As far as controllers are concerned, if you're thinking about movers, just skip the hardware ocnsoles and get MyDMX, because anything else would just be taking money away from you trying to get MyDMX anyways down the line.

As if you weren't excited enough, you CAN get MyDMX right now for FREE via the American DJ web site. It's 100% functional with one catch: You need to BUY the MyDMX hardware in order to actually USE the software in a manner where you can control lights. You can start playing, designing and programming now, and then when it comes time to get the hardware, just plug in and go! It's that simple.

I also recommend another bit of hardware: The Elation OptoBranch/4 repeater/splitter. It helps protect your MyDMX and laptop from being damaged by possibly bad stuff on the DMX chain coming back at you, as well as providing a better quality of signal to your lights and providing an optically isolated 4-way split/repeater, in addition to 3 and 5 wire DMX output regardless of how you're coming in! Yes, extra money. Yes, it's worth it. You can hold off on this for a but though and get it fairly soon as well.

Here's a suggestion: put most of your money into the basic equipment you know you will want to use for a long time and skimp for now on the sizzle items. For example, you will have a use for good par cans and a good controller in any setup in the future - and they will do a good job now.

Also be aware that if you ever plan to video the band, the cheaper the par cans the more they will flicker on video (you can't tell it looking at them on stage, but they look awful on film). I use the ProPar 56 RGBs. They don't claim to be flicker free, but they look fine to me on video.

If it were me in your shoes I think I'd get:

Six 46hp-led-pros (some ProPar 56 RGBs would be better, but would blow your budget)

A Magic 260 controller (unless you've got someone not on stage to run the lights - in which case go with MyDMX) You won't outgrow this controller for a long time.

Two Aggressor Tri LEDs (they add a lot of pizzazz for the buck and are cheap enough to throw away when you want to upgrade your pizzazz.)

Three light stands and DMX cables

This would leave you a little money to buy a cheap used hazer you will replace someday when you can afford it.

You'd put two pars can on each of two stands on the front corners of the state, front lighting the band [I think having one pole in the center of the stage between you and the crowd would be tacky].

Put the third stand behind the band. Hang the Agressors off each end and put the other two par cans in the middle.

You won't feel like you are in the middle of a SerraAva light show, but it will get the job done within the budget you specified and the stuff you will want to replace someday is cheap, i.e., you won't waste much money with this approach.

The only hitch is that unless you get something like a DP-415 dimmer pack (which your Magic 260 can control), you will have to rig up a stomp switch which will cut off the power to the Aggessors when you don't want them on.

Eventually you will want to have more and more powerful lights up front. You can then move the 46 Pars to the back line pointing forward.

I will echo what Chris said with regards to the splitter, especially if using a DMX dongle like MyDMX. They come in two forms, a stand alone unit that has rack mount ears and takes up two spaces called the DMX Branch/4. The other is a single space rack mount unit with the rack ears as part of the chassis called the Opto Branch 4. Both units are exactly the same, just different packaging for different preferences. Something you should seriously think about getting sometime in the near future.

Truss is cool. But it gets expensive fast. It is also rather bulky and takes up a fair amount of room, even on stage. It can make for great effects though:



Also please don't think you need medium sized shows like I have been posting picture wise to accomplish a cool effect. Some of my best and favorite shows are the small ones. That top picture for example looks like a lot, but its 14 LED cans (8 Opti 30 RGB, 6 DLED 36) and I could have done the same effect with 7 (4 Opti 30 RGB, 3 DLED 36) if I needed to.

Trussing can also make sense depending on other factors. I'm using some trussing to help speed set/strike, while I also will sometimes run a 15-foot i-beam truss for small events that can work with it(the rave I do twice a year comes to mind). And yes, it's is big and bulky and can get quite expensive. The pros and cons vary depending on what you're trying to accomplish. There are some cost-effective square trusses with platform stands that can be assembled and moved rather quickly and relatively easily though, but still, it is bulky.

The only bad part about SerraAva's last post is that the fixtures he's mentioning are expensive. Good stuff, but expensive. I can't afford that stuff because I am funding everything out of my own pocket and am struggling to stay afloat myself.

As far as his comment about some of his best shows being small ones, take this into consideration: LED's offer way more bang for the buck, letting you do more with FEWER fixtures, which often times off-sets the costs of what you'd have to spend to do it some other way. For example, you could price out a single Elation OptiTri Par, or you could try to do the same thing with 3 ADJ Par64 cans(regular, not LED), gel sheets(Rred, green, blue) and a 4-channel dimmer pack(DP-DMX20L), and you still won't get the same flexibility as the single LED fixture.

The LED's win hands down. More functionality, less heat, less weight(often), less power draw and LESS fixtures. So, sometimes having less is in fact more.

My advice: buy in pairs, at least for your wash lights. I tend to buy at least 2 at a time, more often 4 at a time. My next big purchases will be 8 each of 2 Elation par64 LED can models. This way you can light from both sides of the stage evenly when you buy in pairs, especially since you'll be doing t-stands for a while.

In regards to Hobson talking about the flickering effect of the ADJ cans, let me say this:
First, optically, I don't see it, as in when I use my eyes, I don't see the flicker. When I had to video a problem with one 64 LED Pro, the flicker was very apparent via a type of strobing action that was ONLY on the video. Do keep in mind I was aiming right INTO the light for this testing.
Re-visiting video, I'm NOT going to discount what he said, but the video team that shot the big show I work on had ZERO complaints to the best of my knowledge with the LED lighting I used and from what I've seen from other video taken(reference video for lighting analysis provided to me by additional show crew), flicker wasn't an issue either.
Don't discount what Hobson said, it's a KNOWN fact. How it affect you are not literally has yet to be seen. If you have a video camera, preferably something compact(say a Flip or the new Alesis VideoTrak), take it with you to evaluate lights. Shoot 10 seconds of each light, play it back, see if it flickers. Shoot aiming INTO the light, and shoot aiming at where the light is washing. You'll have your answer right then.

Please also take into consideration that if you're shopping at Guitar Center or many other music stores, they often have displays that are going to be higher than you can mount your stuff, so the throw will be a bit wider than what you might be able to accomplish with your stuff. The main point though is to show off the fixture and it should still help you make wise purchase decisions.

Yeah, in a perfect world where I didnt need to worry about a budget, I would go all out, but also in a perfect world the band wouldnt be crammed into the corner of a bar sometimes with tables almost right up on us.

LED is something that was never an issue for me. I have heard of the flicker and the added cost, but the fact that I would be able to change colors and dimm most without a dimmer just made sense to me to go LED.

One thing I dont know about is the wash from the front. If I was to use two trees in front of the band, then I would be taking up space where the owner of the establishment might want his tables to be, especially if some tables had already had to be moved to make more space for the band. I do like the panel idea in front on the floor shooting up towards the band. The Profile panels are half the price of the Mega panels, and I know there has to be a reason for this...and that would be....? Just curious. If I could get 4 Profiles for the price of 2 Megas, I might go that route.

The flickering should only be apparent when the LEDs are dimmed. They use pulse-width modulation to dim, unlike a tungsten lamp in which you just turn down the voltage. PWM basically says it strobes really, really fast so the human eye can't see it and that's how it dims. Cameras generally record at 24 or 30 fps, which is slow enough to see this strobing. Human eyes really don't see in terms of FPS, they process as much information as they take in. If you had to put a number on it though, it would be about 60 fps.

You could take what I did a step farther down and use 7 P56's. It wouldn't be as punchy, but you would still get the same effect. I do larger scale things and often times have very long throw distances, like 20-30' for back light/down light. So I need the power for what I do. From what you have told us you are doing John, you don't need nearly as much power.

Well, if you go with 4 Profiles as opposed to 2 Mega(panels), then let me know how that works out for you. I'm actually planning to get 4 Profile Panels, even though I already have 4 Mega Panels. My concept is to build 4 banks of 3 lights: 2 Mega Bar 50's and the Profile Panel. The Mega Bars can do LOW lighting, the Profile Panel can sort of fill in the low/center, and the cans used for longer throw hitting the higher areas(head/chest).

I just shot some video of my lights in action at the show I just did. I haven't evaluated it yet, I'm still in "recovery". Looked good. 8 Mega Bar 50's across the front, and the bank of 4 Mega Panels on the 5-foot i-beam truss(floor mounted). I didn't feel like running my 2 trees of 4 64 LED Pros each. Worked great. Mainly rappers and solo artist stuff, but still worked great.

Going to what SerraAva said about the LED's flickering when dimmed, I had to make a video showing the failure of a 64 LED Pro, and to prevent from overloading the optics on the CMOS on the FLIP MinoHD, I had to turn the fixture down to around 30%.

Since I have a large multi-day event coming up in 2 weeks and I record damn near the whole thing(yeah, that's a big stack of DVD-R's to wade through), I'll see about how this flickering stuff works, since I'll be going all-out on my LED stuff, plus tossing in some High-tech FX for the rave. The LED lights will be used almost constantly for 3 days. Should be a good overall torture test.

I'd be afraid that using only up lights would work only for Halloween season or Mega Death tribute bands.

Depends how you light them and how much throw you're allowed to get from them based on placement.

You would be sadly mistaken then. That shot which is just up lighting was from an Eve 6 concert I did a while ago. Then every single corporate event I do, from small meetings to large scale international ones almost always have up lighting as well.

Lighting is limited based on creativity. Saying something only works in a limited number of situations is limiting that creativity.

And I just saw that that last post was the 10,000 post on this section of the board. Hey Jim, do I get a reward .

Who's 10,000th post?

It was the 10,000th post in this section on the forum, now 3 posts ago with this one included. Look at the post counter.

ohh ok. haha. I thought it was a members 10,00th post. I was gonna say who beat me to it? haha.

Learning is part of why we check this forum. SerraAva, how do you prevent up lighting only from looking ghoulish?

Keep in mind, I'm working shows where I'm restricted in some way. No trusses, no stages, sight line issues. Basically, "here, we want to do a show, but we're gonna make it impossible to really do a show and we expect you to make it all happen, and the answer to all your questions will be NO".

I've done a few shows where with footlight-type applications only, with a decent amount of throw, it's not too bad. Not great, but not too bad.

I believe you are talking foot lighting in that case and not uplighting. And you can prevent that by blending it with front light. I had to do this corporate once where they wanted foot lighting. It was LED, so I played with it until it matched the color of the front lights and figured out what percentage it needed to be at to keep the front lights from over powering the foot lights visa versa. Dumped it all on a handle so it worked as one.

The way to prevent shadows in that case is to wash the back walls with lights so the shadows aren't strong enough to show up. It creates a nice, even, flat look on a person when done correctly. It is also good for when the stages are above your audience, so people aren't just looking at shadows underneath.

I personally generally on use it for effects and in dance. Wish I had some good pictures of the last musical I did. I used footlights a lot in it for effect. Best photo I could find:

The light coming from the front is basically a foot from his feet. 6" 500w Fresnel with R57 in it. Makes for really nice glow. From up front, its R02 which is the pale amber you are seeing on top of the features and stuff shadowed from the Fresnel. Overhead is S4 Parnels scrolled to R80 and from behind is a bunch of Opti Tri pars set to max blue. They really cut, so makes for the glow around them.

Correct me if I am wrong if that isn't what you are talking about. Lights the shoot up from underneath a person to light them.

Well, I think according to your description, I'm using my Mega Bar50's as pretty much a footlight fixture.

The main reason for the purchase was to support the Repo! show because the throw from the 64 LED Pros just wasn't sufficient. Adding 4 Mega Bar 50's didn't help enough, but did help a lot. You might recall the thread about how much adding another light would improve brightness, which based on your answer of roughly 25%, was sufficient to trigger a purchase of 4 more Mega Bar 50's. However, that isn't enough either, but now it's not going to be resolved with more Mega Bars, but I will add 4 Profile Panels. The main way to fix this problem is going to take better cans. Ideally, having flown trusses with the LED cans hung from them would make a massive amount of improvement, but its not an option.

The biggest problem is that since it's a shadowcast type production, I gotta light from whre I can, but at the same time, not wash out the film projection. The Mega Bar 50's let me keep the light nice and low and controlled. The further set 64 LED Pros are aimed mostly across but down a little, but due to distance, the throw diminishes output. Moving the lights closer impedes sight lines and makes the coverage too small. The answer is that I don't have to can the cans, but add better cans with better throw, so the Opti Tri Pars seem to be a logical jump.

When I do bands, I often get a little spacing by forcing them back a bit with the monitors. This let's me have some spacing for the Mega Bar 50's to do their job and the band doesn't have them right under them. Similarly, with the Repo! show, thanks to the same monitors(the producer needs is SUPER loud up there), I get the front 18 inches of stage "talent free" so again, I can let the Mega Bars do their job.

Now, if by uplighting, you mean basically shoving a light under them, well, that's just gonna look awful unless supported by some light coming from above and in front of or those shadows are gonna be yuck. Throw in some haze an the look should be absolutely scary beyond belief. I'm not saying this would be a BAD thing, but not something I would want to do.

SO, I think in my application, I'm confusing footlighting with uplighting. I think I'm using my bar lights as footlights.

Good comments on the use of footlighting. I too use Mega Bar 50s for footlighting. [Never attempted to match the color with the front lights - going to give that a try.]

Note, however, my original comment was in response to JD-162 (who started this thread) who said he was going to try to use only lights sitting on the floor of his small stage crammed into a corner of a club. [There was too little room in the corner for light poles.]

I was trying to tell him that I didn't think he would like the look [I thought it would be ghoulish.]

Chris says it floor lighting can work if you can get them far enough away from the act - but from what JD-162 said, it sounds like there will be almost no space between the lights and the band.

Are you both, nevertheless, encouraging JD-162 that he should proceed with his plan?

Yup, talking about foot lighting. Foot lighting is most often done with strips. Again, very popular in dance and for effect. Comedians like to use them as well again so there are no shadows on their faces.

Uplighting is generally used to light scenery and backgrounds, etc. It is called that because that's literally what it is, lights on the ground or on sets pointed straight up. Rarely will you use it on an actual person and if you do, its strictly for effect.

Seems a good many of us could use a good primer on lighting terminology. Myself included.

I have used UPLIGHTING applications as well, mostly to wash walls and things of that manner. But, I mainly use the bars as a footlight.

Right now I'm banging out video after video for use on a media player for my next event(gotta promote myself like a mofo) as well as a short-subject DVD. I'll have the media player playing lots of stuff on a 22" LCD. The DVD will play on a 10" LCD portable DVD player, while I also have a 10" digital frame rotating pictures. Seeing what if any business I can scare up.

It's hard to imagine that the guy who is just getting into lighting and asked for help on this forum gives a flip whether his lighting idea should be called "foot lighting" or "uplighting.". He was wanting to know if it would look good or not.
I haven't seen anyone disagree with my comment that he won't be very happy with the was it makes his band look. It may look better than playing in the dark - but not much better.

If you want to know how exactly it will look, the simple fact is I can sit here and type theory till my fingers are worn to the bone. I can also sit here and do a CAD of it if I get exact measurements. However, actually going out and doing it might provide the effect or look the OP is looking for.

The major factor is the angle. The steeper the angle, the less it will light the top of the face and the more shadows it will create. The OP also mentioned doing trees as well, which as I explained, will help fill it out. Especially if the front lights are coming down on a harsh angle which sounds like might be the chase judging from the small venues the OP seems to be playing in.

As for terms and knowledge of, it is rather important. Look at what happened to me, I thought you were talking about up lighting to make the OP's space more interesting and provide a back drop when in fact you were talking about lighting the band members with foot lighting. Two radically different things with two hugely different effects. I am not saying everyone needs to know the terms (in fact, most are here to indeed learn such things), but the misusing of terms only leads to more confusion within the community as a whole.

Maybe I should update the FAQ with some generally lighting positions, what they are called, and what effects they have.

I've learned the most by doing. Trial and error, but with some intelligent trial and error practices. I watch concert videos to learn, watch TV shows to learn.

The funny thing is that SerraAva mentioned comics using footlights, and that's exactly what gave me the idea for the Mega Bar 50's. I saw those being a perfect application for the Mega Bar 50's and while it ain't perfect, it's a good application for them and I'm quite pleased.

I'd say the OP needs to start small, buy wise and learn. Then invest heavy.

I use a combination of Megabar 50's and Chauvet Diamondstrip Mini's for foot lighting. The Diamondstrips are a bit cold white but the Megabars can warm the tones. When possible, I arrange in a gradual arc around the front of the band and small angle. Dimming is important, you don't always need 100%.

No, I appreciate all the info and I am learning a lot without even spending money yet. I did not want to make an investment in lights and not get what I was really looking for.

Basic terminology really helps though, as I was looking for footlighting, not uplighting. I know I have seen par cans on the floor lighting up trusses and back walls, but at this point, that is just too many lights to purcahse for that effect. My first goal is to light the band up and my second is to provide a little excitement to the audiences eyes.

I think I am going to try a combination of panels on the floor for footlighting and two trees with par cans in front of the band. Having to get so close to the band, the shadows that having one or the other might be too much, so I am going to try and balance it out using a combination of both.

I think I am going to set a tree up right in back in the middle of the band, put some lights up there and start with that for giving the audience a little "eye candy." Save the lighting effects and hazer for later when I have more money. Focus on the important thing, lighting up the performers.

I have been playing with myDMX, and so far, so good. I am going to try using my netbook to run it and simply use my USB keyboard and assign triggers and just reach behind and tap the keys to start new scenes rather then a foot pedal. That way I can have all the songs set up and ready to go with the tap of a key. All I will have the songs already set up and all I will have to do is go back and assign the appropriate key based on the set list. First set will probably be 1-0, second set will be Q-P, etc.

I know the feeling. I constantly get bands jammed up onto tiny stages(both in width and depth), then having to cram 2 trees on the corners and then monitors on the front line and the band at the edge of the stage, throw and coverage become issues.

Cans need a BIT of distance to throw. Not necessarily a whole bunch, but when I have no space between the band and the cans, I really can't do a whole lot. I try throwing across with each tree to try to get some spread and soften shadows, but often I just can't make it happen.

Or, check this out:
I have this one venue that has like a 4-foot stage in front of the curtained stage area. I'm not allowed to put any gear on this front area. AIn't that lovely? There goes my throw, and now that the band shows up and the dancing dilweed with a wireless mic gets a nice strip to march up and down in front of the mains with(I gotta put the mains back there as well.....)

Start small, mainly so you can learn and play. Then dive in more as you learn more. Helps prevent wasting money.